Chaplin, 2nd Lt Herbert, RFC

[Perth Digger]

Thanks.

Mike

[TullochArd]

Another piece of the jig-saw.  An unreferenced typewritten source "Roll of Officers who have served with the Battalion in France" is available at Officers Roll (curme.co.uk)) and shows 2Lt H. Chaplin served with 11th Suffolk from 21 June 1917. 

Edited 15 December , 2021 by TullochArd

[TullochArd]

On 12/12/2021 at 22:34, PRC said:

Herbert Chaplin, with a date of death of the 19th October 1917, is on the Norwich Borough Great War Police Memorial, 

He's also on the shiny new 2019 Norwich Police Memorial on that same date .......... but now as Suffolk Regiment/RFC.  I suspect they have quite understandably taken the CWGC entry as fact when compiling the new roll.  I must agree with you, and based on what is appearing here, the whole RFC thing is looking like a a 100 year old "clerical error".  

[Perth Digger]

I've written to CWGC.

 

Mike

[charlie962]

3 hours ago, Perth Digger said:

I've written to CWGC.

We await with bated breath...

 

 

Edited 15 December , 2021 by charlie962

[charlie962]

6 hours ago, TullochArd said:

Another piece of the jig-saw

It is fascinating how many snippets from different sources can be brought together for one person.

[hmsk212]

Hi

 

I had a similar puzzle with an Officer, 2nd Lt Harold Rodolph Stent. He was killed in action on 20th July 1918. Most paperwork had him as 2/4th Duke of Wellingtons (West Riding Regiment ) attached to the Royal Air Force.  His Squadron wasn't mentioned in any reports of his being missing and subsequent reports of his death. When I finally managed to get to Kew to look into his Officer Record I discovered a couple of notes from his mother stating that he was in fact RAF attached to Duke of Wellingtons and not the other way around. His place of death etc all made sense once I realised he was killed in the trenches with the 2/4th Duke of Wellingtons and not in the air with an unknown RAF Squadron.

 

Steve

[Perth Digger]

That's a feasible answer to this riddle too, Steve (I think!). 

I wonder if we will all be kicking ourselves for the simplicity of the answer when it becomes apparent (always the optimist)?

 

Mike

[Perth Digger]

I've received am email from CWGC about Chaplin. They are as in the dark as us. I include here my original email to them and their response. I have asked them to add the SR to their list of must-sees, but if someone going to Kew might have the time ....?

Mike

Original Enquiry: 15/12/2021

 

Dear Sir/Madam
I would be grateful if you could help me understand how 2nd Lt Herbert Chaplin's name is on the Arras Flying Services Memorial to the Missing. According to your on-line records, Chaplin was in the RFC, attached from the 4th Suffolk Regiment, when he was killed on 19 October 1917. There is no mention of a particular squadron to which he was attached when killed. In the military records available on Ancestry, his Medal Index Card shows that he was A/Sgt in the 4th Norfolk Regiment before being commissioned as 2nd Lt in 4th Suffolk Regiment on 18/4/1917. He is reported on the card as being KIA, but there is no mention of his being in or attached to the RFC. Furthermore, the British and Victory medal roll shows that his medals were issued from the Suffolk Regiment and not from the RFC and the Effects records of Accounts 4 (WO) --no. 32234--also states that he was KIA with 4th Suffolk. On the other hand, "Soldiers who Died in the Great War" accessed through Ancestry states that he was 4th Suffolk and RFC. The simple answer to this conundrum could be that Chaplin was attached to the RFC as an Observer or aerial gunner (and perhaps was killed before the paperwork went through), but there are no records to show this (including in the Air Force Museum on-line records, although he is in their Roll of Honour as KIA). I would be very grateful if you could give me any relevant information you may have on the fate of Chaplin.
I have brought this issue to the on-line Great War Forum at https://clicktime.symantec.com/34KkV2fhbTEoLTbjpYdx5Rm7VN?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.greatwarforum.org%2Ftopic%2F294861-chaplin-2nd-lt-herbert-rfc%2F from which you may see that there are a number of other equally perplexed researchers.

Response dated 12/2/22:

 

Thank you for contacting us regarding the commemoration of Second Lieutenant H Chaplin. Please accept my apologies for the delay in our response, but I wanted to wait until I had been able to access our archive files and library before replying.

 

I can see why you are questioning his association with the RFC, as the circumstances of his death are unclear. Our records show that Second Lt H Chaplin was notified to the IWGC as a casualty of 4th Bn. Suffolk Regiment, attached to the RFC, Killed in Action 19 Oct 1917. This is the original record and no error has occurred during transcription, engraving or the process of digitisation. He appears with the same details in a printed copy of Officers Died in the Great War, so the attribution appears to have originated from the War Office.   

 

I also checked our original listing for RFC officers, but there is no duplicate entry and I cannot see any other casualty named with whom he might have been confused. 

 

I was also able to access the History of the Suffolk Regiment 1914-1927 which includes a single reference to Second Lieutenant Chaplin. He is named on page 253, which describes the activity of 11th Bn. in October 1917: 'October 19 2nd Lieut. H Chaplin was killed.' The rest of the entry in the published history is very similar to the text in the 11th Bn. war diary (WO95/2458/3). The war diary reports total casualties for the month included two officers who died of wounds (believed to be Captain Wootton and 2/Lt Joscelyne), and 1 officer killed - presumably  Second Lieutenant Chaplin. Both the diary and the history refer to the bombardment by gas shells on 18-19 Oct, but notably the diary differs in that it does not name him or any other casualty as occurring on 19th Oct. This perhaps suggests that he was killed away from the Bn., although whether this was with the RFC or just not in the line with the 11th Bn. remains obscure. 

 

I have also looked at other RFC officer casualties of the same date, in case there was anything to show a possible connection to him, but without any success. My final thought at this stage is that Second Lieutenant Chaplin had previous pre-war service with a note on his naval record of 'RFR'. Might it be that a handwritten note to that effect on his service record was mis-transcribed and became 'RFC'?

 

I think that a check of his full officers service record is the next step, but I understand you are not able to visit The National Archives yourself. We can add his record to our list of cases to review on our next visit, but it could be some considerable time before we are in a position to be able to do this. In the meantime if any of your contacts are able to provide a full copy, we would be very happy to review the situation. 

 

Thank you for your interest, and I hope that we will be able work with you to resolve the mystery.

[Bradwell rector]

Hello all, has there been anything else regarding Herbert Chaplin?  I'm the rector in Bradwell and am doing some research on behalf of his neice, his name is included in a existing family hedstone within our churchyard, however his name isn't  on the war memorial in the village and I'd like to build a case to get it included.  (I know he's on the Police one in Norwich, but it would be great to have him remembered here in the viallage.)  Thanks, Steve

Edited 28 July , 2023 by Bradwell rector
typo

[Perth Digger]

Dear Rector

My apologies. I did not see your post of 29 July and have not been on the Forum for a while. But I'm back now, with another response from CWGC dated 30 September 2023 (better late than never). Here it is:

My thanks for your continued patience. We were recently made aware of a possible fault in our Enquiries system, whereby certain cases from 2022 did not show the final response communicated back to the original instigator. In this instance, Mel Donnelly was under the impression that she had relayed our findings to you earlier this year, but obviously this fault prevents us from confirming. So my apologies if the following repeats information you are already in receipt of - 

CWGC staff have consulted the Service Record of 2nd Lt H. Chaplin at the National Archives. Unfortunately the documentation was unclear, in terms of determining where this individual's recorded attribution to the Royal Flying Corps had originated from. Various pieces of the file, including post-war correspondence, listed his attachment. 

We would accept that this could well constitute a historical error. But on the basis of us being unable to know definitively where or indeed when this attribution was made, we have concluded that it is best to leave the historical record as it exists. 
 

As far as I know, this thread contains all that can be obtained about Chaplin. 

Mike