Please assist me in understanding my great grandfathers War Bible enscription

[Andre Beighton]

I have in my possession my Great Grandfathers War Bible left to me by my mother . I plan to give it back to the Regiment my Great Grandfather served in but before I do I wish to research his time within the Army . I have heard plenty of rumours but a  keen genealogist I like to know the true facts .

From the picture I have attached it will be probably self exoplanetary to most in here but I need to clarify what lines 2 & 3 mean 

Would I be right in assuming the line 2 is his service number ? The last 4 digits are stamped at the side of the bible over each page . Can someone help me confirm that the first 3 digits are 910 ?

In line 3 can anyone intemperate the first word ? I assume the rest is the regiment he served in . 

Any help would be truly appreciated as i have been scratch my head and getting finger sore typing searching on the internet.

Many thanks in advance 

Ps Please ignore the bottom part as it was a distant cousins schoolboy inscriptions 

[rolt968]

I am still thinking about  what is before the serial number.  The word before South Staffordshire Regiment is "Depot". The depot was the "home base" of a regiment, in peacetime circumstances where a man reported before being posted to a battalion. The depot of the South Staffordshire Regiment was in Lichfield.

RM

[Ron Clifton]

It looks as if his full regimental number was 9/08546, which suggests that he was probably in the 9th Battalion of the South Staffordshire Regiment and was later posted to the Depot when he wrote in the bible.

Ron

[TEW]

Looks to me more like 9/08546.

Depot was in Lichfield, 9th battalion formed in Lichfield.

Odd way to include the 0 but possible. 8546 belongs to Riley of 1st battalion. Marshall may not have served abroad under that number anyway, or even with South Staffs.

Could he be G W Marshall?

TEW

[BillyH]

1 hour ago, Andre Beighton said:

I have in my possession my Great Grandfathers War Bible left to me by my mother . I plan to give it back to the Regiment my Great Grandfather served in but before I do I wish to research his time within the Army .

Please forgive my impertinance, but if I had my great grandfather's war bible I wouldn't be giving it to anyone, least of all his regimental museum. It will end up in a cupboard in the cellar and never see the light of day again!

BillyH.

[Mickster]

I tend to agree with BillyH, Andre.

You hold on to it. It may even be the only handwriting there is from your Grandads pen.

Besides, you cant actually give it back to the regiment as they didnt give it to him.

These bibles were produced by Christian organisations and given to the troops.

My Grandads version was gifted by Scripture Gift Mission with a printed letter from Lord Roberts on the inside front cover

Mickster

[PhilB]

I think it’s  No 8546 - ie number 8546.

Notice that the two halves of the h in south aren’t connected.

Edited 7 December , 2021 by PhilB

[BillyH]

I think that is an excellent spot Phil, and there is also a similarity to the 'M' in Marshall.

.

BillyH.

 

[kenf48]

 

It would be helpful if the OP told us a bit more about 'G Marshall'; first name and date of birth would be especially useful

[Andre Beighton]

Cant thank you guys enough for all the help with this .

Noting the comment from kenf48 my great grandfathers first name was George and he was born in 1881 in Handsworth , Sheffield . With regards to his D.O.B , I'm still trying to establish that

[TEW]

Handsworth was a sub-district of Sheffield GRO volume 9c. I don't seem to be able to find any names at all for birth registrations for Handsworth district for any year.

There are six candidates for 1881 in 9c but none for Handsworth. Another three for 1st Qtr 1882 including Sheffield but not Handsworth.

There are two MICs to George Marshall South Staffs, four with an extra initial. This assumes he served abroad with South Staffs.

No known extra initials for him?

Any siblings?

Is he on 1881 census?

TEW

 

[TEW]

Ah, just seen your Ancestry family tree for him.

Handsworth is where he says he was born on 1911 census.

1881 is calculated from age at death and age on 1911 census.

No middle initial it seems.

TEW

[TEW]

I see his birth registration is difficult as he was born three years before his 'parents' married. Or his Father John had a previous wife. Can't see a Marshall/Wainman or Wainman/Wainman birth for George.

There is for example the birth of George Marshall 1882, Wakefield mother's name Brockelsby and a John Marshall who married Sarah Brockelsby 1881 in Wakefield. Not saying it's a match just highlighting other possibilities.

Could also be an out of wedlock birth with an unknown as yet mother.

TEW

 

[Andre Beighton]

Cant thank you guys enough for the tips and advice. I think i may be getting somewhere now ! 

Just a couple of quick questions ( i promise not to ask any more ) -- is it unusual to be transferred around the regiments more than a couple of times and each time get a new service number ?

Edited 8 December , 2021 by Andre Beighton

[ss002d6252]

46 minutes ago, Andre Beighton said:

Cant thank you guys enough for the tips and advice. I think i may be getting somewhere now ! 

Just a couple of quick questions ( i promise not to ask any more ) -- is it unusual to be transferred around the regiments more than a couple of times and each time get a new service number ?

Quite common  - the army was an administrative nightmare and they took a long time to sort the issue regarding service numbers.

Craig

[kenf48]

 

22 hours ago, Andre Beighton said:

Noting the comment from kenf48 my great grandfathers first name was George and he was born in 1881 in Handsworth , Sheffield

His age is important because it may reflect on his service.  Born in 1881 he was aged 30 in 1911/33 in 1914 when war declared  and initially too old for recruitment as a volunteer to Kitchener's Army, (18-30 older for old soldiers).  An upper age limit that was soon extended.  

In 1916 and the Military Service Act, initially confined to single men, the upper age limit following the National Registration Act was set at 41.  Once again, conscription was soon extended to married men of the same age.

The number in the Bible does not look like any number issued to the South Staffordshire during the war.

It is possible, as he was on the Depot strength that he was in the militia or Special Reserve (formed in 1908 when the militia was abolished), for the latter we would expect to see the prefix 3 or 4. The number 4/8546 was allocated to a Pte Riley, 1st Battalion so probably not in the Special Reserve.

 Pte Marshall may have been recalled or volunteered, in which case he would be allocated a new number, either in the series to Kitchener Battalions or the TF but neither of these would put him at the Depot.  It is possible remained on home service due to his age/fitness.  There were approximately 80,000 men in the Home Army. 

Is there a publication date in the Bible? 

[TEW]

8Andre,

You've added a Pension & Ledger entry to his Ancestry Tree. This is to 102282 George Marshall of the Labour Corps previously Devon Regt. I think this is based on the Sutton in Ashfield location also on the 1911 census?

I can't view the original but there's another that gives date of death as 26/4/1926. One or both of these should make a connection to his wife which makes it a 100% match.

102282 was discharged with a SWB from LC and the roll states formerly RGA. His age is about right and there is a connection in pension details to his locality in 1911.

Not sure how to find the the RGA number, no mention of this service in the medal records.

TEW

[ss002d6252]

12 minutes ago, TEW said:

I can't view the original but there's another that gives date of death as 26/4/1926. One or both of these should make a connection to his wife which makes it a 100% match.

Neither of them list a wife's details. There's nothing on the ledger or the card which suggest a widow's claim.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

16 minutes ago, TEW said:

102282 was discharged with a SWB from LC and the roll states formerly RGA. His age is about right and there is a connection in pension details to his locality in 1911.

The pension card states 'Devon RGA', but doesn't give a number either.

Craig

[kenf48]

59 minutes ago, TEW said:

Not sure how to find the the RGA number, no mention of this service in the medal records

 The LC Medal Roll show Pte. Marshall was transferred to the Labour Corps with many others indicating a transfer from a Labour Battalion of the Devonshire Regiment (Devon number 57954) in April 1917.

I have found a Thomas Edward Morgan  102278 (formerly 59956 Devon) who originally enlisted in the RGA (85622 probably -very faint?) on the 23rd May 1916.  He was passed fit at Shrewsbury.  Embarked for France 10.3.17 compatible with other men on the LC Roll formerly with the Devonshire Regiment labour battalion.  Unfortunately no date of transfer from the RGA to the Devons.  He was posted to Fort Brockhurst at Gosport on the 25th May 1916.  Therefore it's  fair to assume he was on home service until transferred hence no mention of RGA in the Rolls.

Another man, George Powell 102326 had a long career, he was aged 18 in November 1903 when he attested from the Kent RGA (Militia) to serve 3 years with the Colours  and 9 on the Reserve with the RGA.  He was mobilised at Newhaven 5 August 1914 the day after war was declared.  In June 1916 he elected to continue in service and Bounty paid.  Posted from the RGA Depot and transferred to the Devons on the 5 March 1917.  Posted  to the BEF on 10 March and transferred to the   Labour Corps (171 Coy) on 28.4.1917. 

Neither man went to an Infantry Depot  and if the  Pte Marshall, who has been identified above followed a similar path, which seems likely, i.e. RGA >Devons>LC he would not be at the South Staffs depot during the Great War period.

We appear to have a cohort of men who served with the RGA at home and posted to the Devons in March 1917.  Only fit for Garrison duty on enlistment by 1917 the need for men on the Western Front was critical therefore posted as L of C Army Troops.  It may be the man identified on the Ancestry tree referred to above is the owner of the Bible but unlikely it was given to him 14 -18, or on enlistment.

Now finding more men who were originally enlisted in the RGA or RFA, and transferred as above, generally poor physical condition Derby or Group Scheme recruits only fit for home service.  Pte 102282 Marshall is right in the same period, and appears to fit the profile, enlisting 29 February 1916.

Mansfield or Sutton in Ashfield were both 8th Sherwood Foresters(TF) with the HQ at Mansfield.  Marshall  was probably told to report to the Sherwood Foresters Depot when called up for service where he would be medically examined before being passed to a unit for training.

[Tom Lang]

I read this as "No 8546".

Tom.

[TEW]

Certainly looks like the bible annotation has been established as pre-war.

102282 Marshall also has a Casualty List: Wounded, Daily List 15/1/1918. Probably wounded mid-December 1917.

FMP have a WO97 record for a George Marshall (RGA?) born c1881. In Ordsall, Retford 1904.

TEW