Identifying Bavarian Bayonet

[6RRF]

I am in possession of what appears to be a pretty standard German bayonet, brought back by one of two relatives who served on the Western Front in the first half of the war. Some of the markings seem straightforward - there are no markings on the scabbard.

On one side of the blade just above the hilt are crossed keys above F. REDERER A.SN over SOLINGEN. I assume that this is simply the maker

On the other side is the word AMBERG with a Crown over it, in this case I assume its a reference to Amberg in Bavaria

Finally on the back of the blade, running down towards the hilt there is what appears to be a crown over £ and under that 15

Would I be right in interpreting all of this as Bavarian 15 Landwehr ?

There is one other, very small and badly struck mark below this which appears to be a crown over what may be either a B or an R 

 

[peregrinvs]

It’s double maker marked. One company made the blade blank and the other completed the bayonet. I think the makers are F. Herder A. Sohn and the other is Königliche Bayerische Gewehrfabrik Amberg. The crown over 15 marking is the acceptance stamp for 1915.

[shippingsteel]

So your bayonet should be a S98/05 (butcher bayonet) model given it is stamped with both Amberg and F. Herder and dated 1915, as they only operated together like that producing bayonets for the single year. And yes it is indeed a Bavarian bayonet carrying the Royal Cypher of the Crown L marking for King Ludwig III. The 15 is the year of production. 

Cheers, SS 

[trajan]

9 hours ago, 6RRF said:

I am in possession of what appears to be a pretty standard German bayonet, brought back by one of two relatives who served on the Western Front in the first half of the war. Some of the markings seem straightforward - there are no markings on the scabbard.

Sounds interesting! Please post a photograph as we need to see if the crossguard is 'high eared' or 'low eared' - the former is pre-August/September 1915, the latter is later. Is the scabbard leather or steel?

8 hours ago, peregrinvs said:

It’s double maker marked. One company made the blade blank and the other completed the bayonet. I think the makers are F. Herder A. Sohn and the other is Königliche Bayerische Gewehrfabrik Amberg. The crown over 15 marking is the acceptance stamp for 1915.

Herder were one of several Solingen makers. As Solingen is in (modern) North Rhine-Westphalia, then this fits in with the known history of German re-armament in 1915, by which Bavaria adopted the 98/05 after Prussia and was forced to get a supply quickly, in which case the AMBERG mark (which should be on the right side of the ricasso) suggests the blade may have been made there but the bayonet was completed at Solingen. OR vice versa! There is no agreement on this matter... The practiuce of a bayonet blade being made in one place and then completed with grips, etc., elsewhere , is well noted, and some F.Herder 'made' bayonets have a second mark, for Fitchel and Sachs, a Schweinfurt in Bavaria maker. 

2 hours ago, shippingsteel said:

And yes it is indeed a Bavarian bayonet carrying the Royal Cypher of the Crown L marking for King Ludwig III. The 15 is the year of production. 

And as the OP noted, there is an inspector's mark under the L/15, and it is indeed most probably a Gothic 'R'. I don't have access to my collection to check, but that is what my notes say - although it is not in the regular style of such 'Gothic' marks.

Julian 

[AndyBsk]

Same opinion as previous, the Amberg state armory was a finisher, the blade blanks was delivered by F.Herder Solingen, this is already mentioned in Carter book, the inspector end proofs are clearly bavarian, so it could be not finished in Solingen, this already clear for long time. Amberg produced bayonets only to 1916, as later was focused only on firearms.

L15 means as mentioned already king Ludwig III. so bavarian acceptance. Voronov copy present and list both version S98/05aA, S98/05nA and sawback version S98/05nAS

Edited 1 December , 2021 by AndyBsk

[6RRF]

Thank you gentlemen for your several replies. I'll try and sort out some photies, but for the meantime will confirm that the scabbard is a very plain steel one

The information provided was more useful than expected. It was nice to have confirmation that its Bavarian, and the fact that £15 wasn't a regimental mark but indicates 1915 manufacture identifies it as having been brought back by Jim Duncan rather than by Jack Milton as the latter was wounded at Aubers Ridge and didn't go abroad again.

[AndyBsk]

Nice to see would be the proofs same as existence of flashguar and ears on crossguard? Thats the point to destine old, new or transition modell bayonet.

[BGibbins]

Hi there,

Would this bayonet be similar to yours? I wondered what are the symbols below the 15 on the back of the blade. Did your bayonet have any unit marker on it?

 

Cheers,

 

[AndyBsk]

Your piece  S98/05nA is unit marked to Bavarian 5.Infantry Regiment, 1.Company but no weapon nr, which probably means it was in depot or not assigned to exact weapon, the blade as upper piece was delivered by F.Herder A.Sn Solingen and the bayonet was finished in Koeng.Gewehrfabrik Amberg. Under the L15 could be different letter of inspector, possible J, but the letter is not fully visible here. Pg226 in Voronov/Carter copy has similar piece marked L15 Amberg - J marked on spine. Should be presented the pommel proofs?

[BGibbins]

8 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

Your piece  S98/05nA is unit marked to Bavarian 5.Infantry Regiment, 1.Company but no weapon nr, which probably means it was in depot or not assigned to exact weapon, the blade as upper piece was delivered by F.Herder A.Sn Solingen and the bayonet was finished in Koeng.Gewehrfabrik Amberg. Under the L15 could be different letter of inspector, possible J, but the letter is not fully visible here. Pg226 in Voronov/Carter copy has similar piece marked L15 Amberg - J marked on spine. Should be presented the pommel proofs?

Thank you for this helpful information