Missing Royal Scots

[stevie1944]

I'm trying to locate information on the burials of twelve men of the 12th Bn. Royal Scots who were killed by a single German shell in the QUARRY at 36c.S.8.b.3.8 on 6/9/16. Nine of them are buried in Villers Station Cemetery and one is commemorated on the Arras Memorial. I checked with the CWGC and these nine burials are original burials and not concentrations. The identity of the remaining two killed are unknown to me. I searched war diaries for the 12th RS, the 27th Brigade, the 27th Field Ambulance and the 9th Division and no mention of these two men. I also search the CWGC database and did not find any other RS killed on that day. I did find a 7412 PTE HURLEY of the 1st Regiment, South Africans that was killed on 6/9/16 during their relief of the 12th RS, so this might be one of the men. I know it is impossible these two men were simply not recorded anywhere. What happened to these two soldiers?

Edited 23 November , 2021 by stevie1944

[PRC]

12 hours ago, stevie1944 said:

I know it is impossible these two men were simply not recorded anywhere. What happened to these two soldiers?

Looking at the diary entry is says of the 12 who died, three died of wounds. I would suggest that just means that the diary's author was aware of them by the time he wrote the diary up. Given the even writing I would say at least this page was all done at the same time, and if the others are the same then I suspect it was done early in the following month.

So Private 43280 John Archibald Blair who died of wounds on the 7th September 1916 could be a possibility. He is buried at Barlin Communnal Cemetery Extension. The CWGC webpage for that Cemetery says it was used by 6 CCS. https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/53900/barlin-communal-cemetery-extension/

Even if he was wounded in preceding days then may be worth checking out the 6 CCS angle.

It also looks from the entries on the CWGC database it would appear a number of the men who died were only attached to the 12th Royal Scots - from the 1/5th and 1/9th Battalions. Have you looked to see if there are any individuals from those two Battalions who appear to be buried in the "wrong" place - i.e. somewhere you wouldn't expect them to be, given the location of their parent unit.

Finally there is the option of locating the casualty lists for the names you do know about and checking out the other Royal Scots shown. Afraid I don't have subscription access to the likes of FMP and Ancestry anymore to check out the detail, but looks like the list was published around about the 13th October 1916, or a few days earlier depending on whether these titles were daily or weekly.

Screenshot from FindMyPast - they will also probably be on the British Newspaper Archive site.

Hope that helps,
Peter

Edited 24 November , 2021 by PRC
Typo

[stevie1944]

Peter, thank you for helping me work this through. I could not quite put my finger on why the journal entry seemed like it contained a clue, but now that you mentioned it, it is obvious. Of the 12, nine were killed and 3 DOW. The nine are those buried at Villers Station. One of the wounded is on the Arras Memorial. I will do more digging, but I believe PTE Blair is one that died of wounds. Fortunately I have a subscription to Ancestry. 'll dig around and see if I can locate the 12th man. Thank you for you post - it was very helpful. Cheers! - Steve

[Neill Gilhooley]

Good work both of you, very interesting. Of the two 9th RS men:

• Robert Macdonald 4590 is listed on CWGC as 1/9th Bn attd. 12th Bn
• John Lowe 3495 is listed simply as 1/9th Bn but in George Heriot's Roll of Honour he is recorded as attd 12th RS (and there is a picture)

Further gen at https://neillgilhooley.com/9th-royal-scots/index/ 

[TEW]

6 CCS only helps in as much as it keeps a weekly tally of deaths in the CCS by division.

Using the CWGC details following on from Blair 7/9/1916 to mid-October 1916 (by which time the diary must have been written) CWGC have eight 9th division men buried at Barlin where 6 CCS was located. I can't really see why the 12th RS would be keeping tallies of casualties from other battalions or brigades other than at a push those from SA units during relief. There are three SA casualties buried at Barlin 15/9/16 - 20/9/16.

This only leaves #15571 Peter Barnes 12th RS who was buried at Barlin 30/9/1916. NB. he has an ALIAS of Scott. Soldiers' Effects says In Action.

Blair has a service record (attached from 1/5th) and Effects indexed under Blais, both say DOW.

Seems a long time to keep Barnes if he was one of the wounded from 6/9/1916. Possible there's another contender who was evacuated from 6 CCS further back.

I'm seeing two contenders on the Arras memorial, LeFrevre & Watson, 15/9/16.

Or, 3725 Toner at Aubigny 30/9/1916 not that far from Barlin possible evacuated there from 6CCS.

TEW

[stevie1944]

TEW et al,

I pulled the service record for Blair, and it shows his admission to 6 CCS on 6.9.16 and his death on 7.9.16. I am convinced Blair is #11 of the 12 killed.

I found a 3750 Rifleman James STEWART that is a contender for #12. CWGC has him listed as 1/5 Bn RS, but the original CWGC grave registration has him listed as 12 Bn RS. I pulled his service record and it has him listed as 1/5 Bn RS, transferred to to the 12th Bn RS on 14.7.16. A transfer from the 1/5 RS to 12 RS is a pattern, as five of the 12 men killed were 1/5 transfers. It is possible he was wounded on 6.9.16 and died of wounds on 10.9.16. The 12Bn RS came off the line on the afternoon of 6.9.16 and was in billets near Gouy-Servins until 19.9.16, so there was no further action nor mention of any wounded men on 10.9.16. What is odd is that he is buried in Bruay Communal Cemetery Extension, which is 7km from the Barlin Communal Cemetery Extension used by the 6 CCS. The Bruay Cemetery was used for burials by the 22 CCS, Would there be a reason he would be buried in Bruay and not in Barlin? Since he lived for four days past his date of wounding, could he possibly have been in the process of transferring to a base hospital and died, and the closet cemetery for burial was that at Bruay?

 

 

Edited 24 November , 2021 by stevie1944

[TEW]

Funny, was just about to post the same on Stewart.

There's no obvious reason some would go to 6CCS Barlin and some to 22CCS Bruay. I've only seen 6 CCS being mentioned as the CCS for 9th Division but that's from scanning through diaries. The four day delay and an attempted evacuation to base could explain it.

22 CCS still could make sense and it must be in the same Army area. Normally you see evacuations to a group of CCSs who rotate their intake & evacuations. If for some reason Stewart arrived later in the day you may find him heading direct to 22 CCS if 6 had closed down.

Failing that it could be down to injury type with one CCS specialising in EG. head wounds.

Usually they try to evacuate wounded to base ASAP unless too bad to move.

I'll see what else there is tomorrow.

TEW

 

[stevie1944]

TEW,

I completed some research on both Lefevre and Watson. Lefevre was reported missing on 15.9.16, and then listed as killed in action the same day. See my notes below for my reasoning. I believe he was killed on the first day of the Battle of Flers- Courcelette.

Watson is also listed as killed in action on 15.9.16. Watson's record appears to have him posted to the 13th Bn, not the 12th. Watson's Report of Death of a Solider has him listed as 13th Bn RS, with a killed in action date of 15.9.16. If this is the case, perhaps there is a typo on Lefevre's record, and he was also in fact posted to the 13th, not the 12th Bn. While the 12th Bn was in the rear during this time frame, 15.9.16 coincides with the first day of the Battle of Flers-Courcelette, which the 13th Bn RS was engaged during the battle. The CWGC has 47 men from the 13th Bn RS killed in action on 15.9.16 (not including Lefevre and Watson). Of those 47, only six have a known grave. Unfortunately, the war diary for the 13th Bn RS is missing the September 1916 entry, so it is quite difficult to obtain information in more detail.

What leads me to believe that Stewart is the 12th man is that he is the only one of these three that has "died of wounds" listed on his paperwork, whereas the two above were listed as killed in action. There is also definitive proof Stewart was posted to the 12th Bn at the appropriate time.

On another tangent, of the twelve killed on 6.9.16, Lowe is the only one missing. What are your thoughts on why this would be? Could it be possible he was obliterated when the shell hit, and there was nothing of him to bury? His record lists him as killed in action on 6.9.16, but no known grave. I do not think he grave was destroyed, so why is he missing?

Thanks for all your help - I look forward to your feedback!

Cheers - Steve

[TEW]

Apologies, I did look into this further and thought I had posted.

I did see a connection between 6 & 22 CCS for the period in question in as much as they were swapping personnel and both had visits from the same senior officers. There was one man transferred by car between the two CCSs.

I also looked at burials at Bruay Communal Cemetery Extension (22 CCS) for this period and there are a handful of 9th division men although their dates are drifting out of the period.

Lowe is not going to be easy to sort out. Apart from the KIA 6/9/16 report you have nothing else other than he has no known grave. Having no remains to bury is one option, a hasty burial in a shell hole can't be discounted. I see from his record that when his medals were sent to NOK in 1921 his number has changed to 43317 and he appears on a Casualty List 2/10/16 under that number. Don't know if someone has muddled up two men but the home address for both numbers is the same.

TEW