Scottish Shoes in Trenches

[Simon Birch]

On page 31 The Gordon Highlanders in the First World War by Cyril Falls says 'On 6 December 1914....because the 6th Battalion - like the 2nd - entered the trenches wearing shoes, spats and hose. The brigade diary describes the Highlanders' shoes as "useless" in such conditions because they were dragged off and lost in the dark, fifteen pairs disappearing in a single night.

So my questions are:

1. Did no-one think beforehand that shoes in trenches might not be a good idea?

2. Did the Royal Scots were boots or shoes at this time? 

3. When did this practice stop?

Thanks in Advance - grateful for any thoughts.

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Simon Birch said:

On page 31 The Gordon Highlanders in the First World War by Cyril Falls says 'On 6 December 1914....because the 6th Battalion - like the 2nd - entered the trenches wearing shoes, spats and hose. The brigade diary describes the Highlanders' shoes as "useless" in such conditions because they were dragged off and lost in the dark, fifteen pairs disappearing in a single night.

So my questions are:

1. Did no-one think beforehand that shoes in trenches might not be a good idea?

2. Did the Royal Scots were boots or shoes at this time? 

3. When did this practice stop?

Thanks in Advance - grateful for any thoughts.

Simon

1.  Trench warfare and its associated glutinous mud was not anticipated.  “It will all be over by Christmas”.

2.  No, the shoes were (and are still) known as “Shoes Highland” and issued (at the time) to Highland regiments, and pipers of all regiments, only.

3.  I don’t recall the precise date, but I think they were gone (along with spats and hose) by 1916, around the same time as drab khaki Tam-o-Shanter bonnets were issued. 

NB.  At Loos in Sep-Oct 1915 the Highlander’s were in shoes and spats, on the Somme, July 1916 in boots and puttees.

 

Edited 2 November , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Simon Birch]

Thanks Frogsmile - that's just the job.

Simon

 

[Grovetown]

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

NB.  At Loos in Sep-Oct 1915 the Highlander’s were in shoes and spats, on the Somme, July 1916 in boots and puttees.

They were flouting (!), as there had been an AO in November 1914 instructing highlanders to do away with the shoe and gaiter and adopt boots and puttees.

Cheers,

GT.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Grovetown said:

They were flouting (!), as there had been an AO in November 1914 instructing highlanders to do away with the shoe and gaiter and adopt boots and puttees.

Cheers,

GT.

I don’t think it was so much “flouting”, as it’s all very well issuing an order to change clothing, but until the supply chain is ready to service it, it’s a moot point.  That said, thank you for the date of the order, which as mentioned above, I did not know.  

NB.  There was also the matter of the Territorial Force units that had arrived in sufficient force to participate in Loos to a significant degree for the first time.  They were not at that stage equipped the same as regulars with the latest equipment and, as a result, it was something of a mixed bag with regard to the dress and equipment of the all battalions, regular and Territorial, that fought (e.g. the London Scottish still had Long Lees).

Edited 2 November , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

When the Highland Division left Bedford in Spring 1915, they were outfitted in boots and puttees.

[FROGSMILE]

38 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

When the Highland Division left Bedford in Spring 1915, they were outfitted in boots and puttees.

The regulars then.  Some good artistic impressions by Mike Chappell based on photos below.  The top photograph shows London Scottish at home in 1916, but they would be issued boots and puttees before departing overseas.  As mentioned, everyone, regular and Territorial, was equipped by the time of the Somme (see group photo of fighting order as a good example).  There were even mixtures of old and new clothing as per the A&SH photo, although again I think, at home.  Hopefully @Simon Birchwill find these of interest.

Edited 2 November , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Andrew Upton]

6 hours ago, Grovetown said:

They were flouting (!), as there had been an AO in November 1914 instructing highlanders to do away with the shoe and gaiter and adopt boots and puttees.

Cheers,

GT.

A bit of a cut and paste job from some information I posted a few years ago:

The 2nd Seaforth Highlanders recorded in their war diary entry for December 31st 1914 a number of changes to uniform that they had adopted or recommended, which includes: "Boots and puttees: Boots and puttees have been drawn by the Battalion, as spats and hosetops were apparently not available. In many cases the boots were not good, the soles not being sewn merely tacked. There seems very little wear in them." The entry above also makes reference to the "difficulty of obtaining fresh supplies of boots and jackets" and resorting to mending them "regimentally" and the problems there-in.

[gordon92]

From Wauchope's A History of The Black Watch in The Great War, Vol II Territorial Force: Notation from March 1915 when the 4th Battalion was in the Meerut Division "Boots and half-putties were soon found to be far more serviceable than shoes and spats, and the khaki bonnets now issued proved a better headdress than the glengarry."

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, gordon92 said:

From Wauchope's A History of The Black Watch in The Great War, Vol II Territorial Force: Notation from March 1915 when the 4th Battalion was in the Meerut Division "Boots and half-putties were soon found to be far more serviceable than shoes and spats, and the khaki bonnets now issued proved a better headdress than the glengarry."

Do you think (know if) those “khaki bonnets” mentioned were the reversible type issued to some units initially? They were of course the subject of previous threads, so I suppose there’s no real need to repeat the whole lot, but I’m curious to know regarding 4th RH(BW).

Edited 2 November , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

36 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Do you think (know if) those “khaki bonnets” mentioned were the reversible type issued to some units initially? They were of course the subject of previous threads, so I suppose there’s no real need to repeat the whole lot, but I’m curious to know regarding 4th RH(BW).

I would infer from the timing of this entry that the "khaki bonnet" referred to was the Balmoral, it being a bit too early for the Tam to make an appearance. Whether they were the reversible type, I do not know, and there is nothing further in the diary entry that would be suggestive.

[FROGSMILE]

58 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

I would infer from the timing of this entry that the "khaki bonnet" referred to was the Balmoral, it being a bit too early for the Tam to make an appearance. Whether they were the reversible type, I do not know, and there is nothing further in the diary entry that would be suggestive.

Thanks, yes, it was also my impression that it seemed most likely to be the Balmoral.

Edited 2 November , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Derek Black]

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Do you think (know if) those “khaki bonnets” mentioned were the reversible type issued to some units initially? They were of course the subject of previous threads, so I suppose there’s no real need to repeat the whole lot, but I’m curious to know regarding 4th RH(BW).

The 5th Black Watch were issued balmorals that month, so likely the 4th were too.

10th March 1915 Montrose Review

".... members of the 5th Black Watch, who had been declared medically unfit, arrived at Arbroath from France.
Most of the men wore the new Balmoral bonnets which have recently been served out to the battalion."

[4thGordons]

At their first base in Belgium the greenhouses at La Clytte (Feb 27 1915) the 1/4th Gordons (or at least this sentry) had boots and puttees:

 

Edited 3 November , 2021 by 4thGordons

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, Derek Black said:

The 5th Black Watch were issued balmorals that month, so likely the 4th were too.

10th March 1915 Montrose Review

".... members of the 5th Black Watch, who had been declared medically unfit, arrived at Arbroath from France.
Most of the men wore the new Balmoral bonnets which have recently been served out to the battalion."

Thank you Derek, that confirms matters nicely.

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

At their first base in Belgium the greenhouses at La Clytte (Feb 27 1915) the 1/4th Gordons (or at least this sentry) had boots and puttees:

 

Thank you, that confirms a TF unit having made the change as early as Spring 1915.  I think that it was probably a gradual process throughout the first 6-months of that year with the puttees, etc. issued as soon as they could be supplied, and others arriving already equipped.

[Simon Birch]

16 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The regulars then.  Some good artistic impressions by Mike Chappell based on photos below.  The top photograph shows London Scottish at home in 1916, but they would be issued boots and puttees before departing overseas.  As mentioned, everyone, regular and Territorial, was equipped by the time of the Somme (see group photo of fighting order as a good example).  There were even mixtures of old and new clothing as per the A&SH photo, although again I think, at home.  Hopefully @Simon Birchwill find these of interest.

I do indeed find these of much interest. I got to this because I am looking at the 1st Gordons and 2 Royal Scots attacking Maedelstede Farm and Petit Bois on 14 Dec. 1914. The Gordons went across 250 yards of thick sticky mud in Highland Shoes. Remarkable that any of the got anywhere near the farm. Waste of good men.

Thanks Again chaps - you told me exactly what I wanted to know.

Cheers,

Simon

 

[Piper42nd]

Does anyone have photos of "Shoes, Highland"?

Harvey 

[TullochArd]

14 minutes ago, Piper42nd said:

Does anyone have photos of "Shoes, Highland"?

Harvey 

.... identical to those still issued today Harvey.

[Piper42nd]

Could you post photos of those please.  I want to make sure I get it right.

Harvey 

[Andrew Upton]

On 20/10/2023 at 15:07, TullochArd said:

.... identical to those still issued today Harvey.

On 20/10/2023 at 14:52, Piper42nd said:

Does anyone have photos of "Shoes, Highland"?

Though similar to the modern issue brogues the "Shoes, Highland" (and to a large extent the later brogues) as issued in the pre/early WW1 period are different in a number of respects (a squarer toe and lacking in less decorative finish to the leather being two of the more obvious ones). The photo below has been posted on the forum before and is an example of an original 1914 dated brogue to illustrate:

 

Edited 21 October , 2023 by Andrew Upton

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Piper42nd said:

Could you post photos of those please.  I want to make sure I get it right.

Harvey 

There is a surviving traditional heavy working shoe maker (one of the very last in England), William Lennon, who manufactures WW1 boots to the original specifications for reenactors and he might well be able to make you a copy of the shoe posted by Andrew: https://williamlennon.co.uk/shop/268-hill-boots/

As Highland brogues were a de facto type of hill shoe, if you send him a copy of the photo then I’m sure he’ll be able to make you some. 

Edited 20 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

Thank you gentlemen.  I'll give them a try.

Harvey 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Piper42nd said:

Thank you gentlemen.  I'll give them a try.

Harvey 

It will be interesting to learn how you get on.  They won’t be cheap by European standards but the quality will be excellent.  It’s very sad that there are so few of these British craftsmen shoe manufacturers still surviving.  Cheap imports and the global economy have destroyed all the others.  As an example there were 500 in 1969 and just 25 two decades later in 1989.  I imagine there are probably just a handful now.

Edited 20 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

Knowing what they charge for B5's they won't be cheap by anyone's standards but I'm going to ask.

Harvey