TRENCH MAPS

[dean coles]

Hi All 

on a trench map ,i have a boxed area in red with diagonal lines running through it 'cross hatching ' what are they please ?

I have a grid reference for a casualty and there are several around the area where he fell .

grid ref : 57c.v.18.c.05.95 

Thanks 

Dean

 

[jay dubaya]

A image of the ‘cross hatch’ will provide better clues Dean, is there no legend on the map?

The grid reference puts the location just west of Sorel-Le-Grand.

[dean coles]

[jay dubaya]

Any background info on the map? Which sheet, date etc

[dean coles]

hi , only the ref and the picture from a site with trench maps , to explain ...

I am researching William henry Bond KRRC no 13782 , wounded 4/4/1917 d.o.w. 5/4 /1917 , he is buried at Fins new British Cem. on the CWCG site in the reburial report it has the grid ref number 

57c.v.18.c.05.95 from where his body was recovered , either from the filed or a previous burial .

Dean 

[jay dubaya]

He was exhumed from a Grave Registration Unit registered grave around late May 1920 and reinterred at Finns NBC the same day.

[dean coles]

thanks Jay , so back to my original question , re the cross hatched boxes , he died of his wounds , so is it possible they are CCS stations ? 

[TEW]

There's an August 1918 map on McMaster that has what I'd interpret as buildings hatched red. There is also a square with red cross within at 57c.V.18.c.06.65 which has to be medical and being on a railway could well be a CCS.

The proximity of the probable CCS to his burial location adds weight to the CCS idea.

Only caution I have at present is his date of death and the map date being 16 months apart. Can't say for sure at present that the CCS was there in April 1917.

Are there others recovered from the same grid reference?

http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A3971/-/collection

TEW

 

 

[TEW]

His details are : R/13282 Bond. Four men in total recovered from that map reference on his concentration sheet, there may be other sheets.

April 1917 he was 11th KRRC, 20th Division, XV Corps, 4th Army. Having checked a few diaries the actions for 4th & 5th April for XV Corps puts his original place of burial forward of the main line as it was 31/3/17.

Looks like even the field ambulances and dressing stations were much further west. The FAs were being moved and reorganised on the 4th April but seems they were in Trones Wood and Maricourt possibly moving to Bus & Moislans that day.

Looks like Bond was a battlefield casualty and if wounded 4/4/17 never made it back to a dressing station let alone a CCS. Not sure at present if there was a RAP at that location.

Seems a bit odd for him to be wounded on the 4th and DOW on the 5th without being evacuated further west.

TEW

 

[TEW]

Have looked at how/where the 11/KRRC were deployed for 4th April.

They spent the preceeding night in Fins and moved to their start line which was to the north & northwest of Fins. Their objective was the village of Metz to the northeast.

I've seen very little regarding RAPs (aid posts) but these were probably roughly where they started from. During the action a field ambulance was brought up to map ref P.34 sunken lane which seems to be as far east as the RAMC worked.

The narrative states there were'nt enough RAMC stretcher bearers.

Going back to your map overlay, in Aug 1918 there seems to have been a CCS adjacent to the hatched block below your blue pin.

The other hatched blocks seem to be buildings, the L shaped one is unlikely to relate to the CCS, the others may do so. There were no medical posts as far as I can see in the area of his original burial which is actually some way out of the area the battalion formed up in and then moved towards Metz.

The action took place until the early hours of the 5th. Possible he was wounded just before midnight and died just after, maybe reaching a RAP or perhaps not even that far. Then taken for burial in V.18.c.

TEW

[dean coles]

Hi TEW 

that's a great help , thanks , I have a list of the CCS station's , so I will have a look , thank you for your help 

dean  

[TEW]

If it's the Pension Office list which has been re-used by many resources it has numerous errors.

I've been checking which CCS may have there in Aug 1918 as per my map link and have had no luck via the DMS locations of CCSs. It may be something else medical of course. Although whatever it is it certainly has no connection to Bond in April 1917.

TEW

[TEW]

I've just realised the Aug 1918 map I linked to shows German Trenches in blue but also shows Enemy Organization in red. This mean the hatched blocks and the red cross area are German infrastructure.

I've found British dressing stations of various types, a walking wounded centre and a scabies unit based in V.18.c in late 1917. One map ref is V.18.c.2.8 which is close to but not quite right for the red cross square.

I suspect now that whatever was there in March 1918 was overun by the Enemy who used the area (and possibly any abandoned British equipment) for their own medical needs.

TEW

[jay dubaya]

CWGC records 29 casualties for the 11th KRRC between 1st/5th April 1917. The majority are buried at Metz-en-Couture CCBE and were recovered from Q.25.a+b and Q.19.a+b, the three remebered on the Thiepval Memorial are also buried here, sadly without their names on their graves. During this period XIV Corps Main Dressing Station and several CCS were based around Bray where two 11th Bn men can be found in Bray MC. There are a further two are buried at Bancourt BC, their remains being recovered from O.27.b.1.2 (roughly the centre of Rocquigny), given the number of men recovered from this location it may suggest a Corps or Divisional medical facility. Along with Bond there is only 1 other 11th Bn man buried at Finns NBC, recovered from V.5.d.9.9 (aound 750 yards NW of Finns). I don't have the whole set of Concentration of Graves Reports for Finns NBC and so can't comment if or any further bodies were  recovered from V.18.c.05.95. The location by a junction is some distance (around 4000 yards) from the area the battalion saw action and also over the inter-divisional boundry with the 8th Division. Its location, and noting several other GRU registered graves were recovered from here may suggest a wounded collecting post or similar, these men having died here or enroute. The regimental particulars noted on the cross and in particular KiA suggest he was buried shortly after he died, the grave being registered by a GRU sometime later.

 

[TEW]

Having been steered towards 8th Division material by Jay the answer lies within their diaries. They had an ADS (Advanced Dressing Station) 'Sorrel Corner' at this location for the 4/4/1917 action. By 3.15pm 4/4/17 they were receiving wounded from 20th Division as well (in fact more than from 8th Division). A total of 68 20th Div. men to 3am 5/4/1917.

No doubt Bond's company was on the right flank of the 20th Division advance and he was collected and taken to Sorrel Corner where he succumbed and was buried there.

By the end of April the III Corps Main Dressing Station had been set up somewhere in V.18.c.

Still means the red hatched areas on the 1918 maps are of no significance to this.

Map references vary a little but not significantly.

 

 

 

TEW

[jay dubaya]

Nice find TEW, positive confirmation for the ADS which looks to be just over the road from the burial location.

[TEW]

Yes, just the slight muddle that he ended up at the wrong ADS for his division. Although he wasn't alone and 20th Division outnumbered those from 8th at the ADS.

TEW

[EDWARD1]

Key to the same map