Tank corp citation October 8th 1918 109751 Hutchinson

[arantxa]

Hello

i have a rather lovely tank corp citation signed by Ellis for Pvt Thomas William Hutchinson for mmfor plucky driving against the enemy at Nierginies on October 8th and a lovely long letter from A company 12th Tank Battalion saying though he was wounded he kept on etc

does anyone have details of what tank he was driving and what that tank was doing

Thanks

ive read past forum details on battle 

[arantxa]

[arantxa]

Hello

i do apolagise i see that i put a bit uip about this in 2017...but i would stillbe intertested if any one can tell me what tank he was in

[PRC]

Can't say which tank, but details of the actions of "A" Company, 12th Battalion on the 8th October 1918, which turned into a tank v tank battle, can be found here: https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home/narratives/1918/2nd-cambrai-1918-8-to-9-october-1st-3rd-and-4th-armies/12-battalion-a-company-8-october-1918

Looks like L6 and L9 would be the prime candidates plus the two supply tanks that advanced, but other tanks would be knocked out or ditched at various points.

Cheers,
Peter

[arantxa]

Thanks Peter....i just seen you are into Norfolks im sure i have a large picture of Norfolks Lewis Gun team before going to Gallipoli (taken egypt ?) will dig it out and send you a copy when i find it

[dgibson150]

The Tank Corps Book of Honour has the following citation -

THE TANK CORPS BOOK OF HONOUR
109754 Pte. HUTCHINSON, THOMAS WILLIAM. 12th Battn.
Awarded M.M.
For gallantry and devotion to duty in the attack on Niergnies
on October 8, 1918. Although wounded in the head and hand soon
after zero he continued to drive his tank with the utmost courage
and skill, and succeeded in reaching the final objective in spite of
the fact that the tank was pierced by armour-piercing bullets, which
wounded three of the crew.

David

[arantxa]

Thank you I didn’t know that so I must be able to track which tank it is from that 

So if I find which tanks reached the destination and if one was hit early on 

[arantxa]

I can narrow it down 

[johntaylor]

Hi, I'm not sure if you've seen the !2th Tank Bn War Diary but this includes the War History with a very detailed history of the action. I haven't had time to go through in detail, but it may be possible to work out which tank he was in from the details given.

All the best, John

[arantxa]

I downloaded the diary but is there another section then …if so I didn’t see it

Thanks 

 

 

[johntaylor]

Hi, if you go through the pdf to the end then from page 102 on it contains a War History of 12th Battalion. I had another look through last night and it mentions that only one tank from A Company rallied after action - this ties in with the letter to Private Hutchinson, but unfortunately it doesn't say which tank this was.

All the best,

John

[dgibson150]

The description of the action starts on page 139 of WO-95-100-3.pdf, but as John says it does not solve the problem.

David 

[PRC]

On 19/10/2021 at 20:53, PRC said:

Can't say which tank, but details of the actions of "A" Company, 12th Battalion on the 8th October 1918, which turned into a tank v tank battle, can be found here: https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home/narratives/1918/2nd-cambrai-1918-8-to-9-october-1st-3rd-and-4th-armies/12-battalion-a-company-8-october-1918

So based on what has been said so far I took another look at the Landships site. One tank seems to be a goodish fit.

L6, 4510, “Lily”, 2LT Wright JS

Orders

L6 was to support the “Drake” Battalion, 189th brigade, attack on the trench system in G5d then, after the artillery barrage had lifted to support the attack on the east of Niergnies” (W12a)

Account of Operations

L7 was hit and knocked out at the lying up position in Range Wood, 3 crew were killed. (W12a)

L6 was taken over by 2Lt Martell when L7 was knocked out. (W12a)

L6 had been hit by anti tank rifle (W12a) and had 3 Lewis Guns out of action (H12) it also developed radiator trouble it returned and rallied. 2Lt Martell left the tank (W12a); joined an artillery officer and they both manned a captured field gun and used it to hit a disabled beutepanzer

Note:

The War History mistakenly gives L8 as as the tank which retired from Niergnies with radiator trouble, this tank must have been L6 as L8 had ditched earlier; also 2Lt Martell had boarded L6 when L7 was knocked out. (2Lt A R Martell is shown elsewhere on the page as 2 Section commander).

Sources

W12a - War Diary of 12th Tank Battalion, “A“ Company Transcript from Bovington tank Museum

H12 - War History of 12th Tank Battalion PRO WO 95 / 100

Cheers,
Peter

[johntaylor]

Hi Peter, I agree L6 looks the most likely candidate based on the information available. It looks as though the copy of the War Diary held at Bovington may contain more information than the National Archives version.

All the best, John 

[arantxa]

I will listen to your advice..i was going to put it and the medal etc in a little frame so i will try and look for a picture of L6 

but im guessing it wasn't one of the tanks firing at the German tanks

[PRC]

20 minutes ago, arantxa said:

I will listen to your advice..i was going to put it and the medal etc in a little frame so i will try and look for a picture of L6 

but im guessing it wasn't one of the tanks firing at the German tanks

According to the Bovington site, 4510 would have been an early MarkIV female, so it was probably a good idea that it didn't get engaged. ( I will post the link but note the security certicate expired 9 days ago so you may want to wait a few days before trying it.) https://tank100.com/headline-news/numbers/

I've only taken a selective cut from the Landships webpage - the bit about rallying comes in the narrative after the first German counter-attack but the tank is referred to as being part of the initially successful Royal Naval Division attack. The War Diary for Drake Battalion may add a bit more detail https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7355470

Looks like there were 6 DCM's awarded to members of the RND for their actions on this day. A search for the this page on the Naval History Net site using a search for "Niergnies” should bring them all up. https://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritishLGDecorationszzDCM.htm

Hope that helps,
Peter

Edited 21 October , 2021 by PRC
Typo

[arantxa]

super thanks

 

[Wigeon]

The account in" Tanks and Trenches " ,  David Fletcher, Sutton Publishing,1994 states that L6 " Lily 2 " was the only tank to rally after the action.

[johntaylor]

Well spotted - it's a shame that no sources are given for any of the material in Tanks and Trenches.

All the best, John

[Wigeon]

WO 95-99-7 contains a copy of " 1st Brigade Report on Operations on 8th and 10th Oct 1918 " which confirms L 12 and L 16 were knocked out, but fails to identify which tank rallied. It does provide a reasonable primary source description of the action. The relevant Tank Corps HQ diary from TNA has nothing helpful. None of the Divisional, Brigade  or Battalion diaries for the accompanying infantry seem to contain anything relevant.

 

[johntaylor]

Unfortunately there's no indication where the account in Tanks and Trenches came from, but quite a few of the pieces were reprinted from the Tank Corps Journal and other post-war publications. It might be worth approaching the Tank Museum Archives at Bovington to see if they know where David found this particular piece. I think it's a shame they didn't include that information in the book.

All the best, John

 

 

[arantxa]

Thanks John and wigeon