1988 Interview with Irish Soldier

[Will86]

2 hours ago, Jervis said:

 

Will - what makes you certain  this is the same man? 
 

I am pretty certain, the date of birth is from his birth certificate I linked above, which has the same parents as the other brothers mentioned above i.e. James Campbell and Elizabeth Larkin . Also other trees on Ancestry confirm his wife was named Patricia, and also have info on his daughter Eileen who emigrated to America. John had a US social security record (which names his parents), possibly as a result of his living there in the 1920s-30s or perhaps he and his wife later went to live with their daughter for a bit? Trees seem to indicate he also had a son, perhaps born in America in the 1930s.

Edited 22 April by Will86

[Jervis]

12 hours ago, Will86 said:

Wow, that is absolutely brilliant! Did you already know that, or was it a guess ??

No, I was unaware - I was just trawling the pension records last evening for a Campbell with a Dublin address and came across 12 Eugene St. 

[Jervis]

12 hours ago, Will86 said:

I am pretty certain, the date of birth is from his birth certificate I linked above, which has the same parents as the other brothers mentioned above i.e. James Campbell and Elizabeth Larkin . Also other trees on Ancestry confirm his wife was named Patricia, and also have info on his daughter Eileen who emigrated to America. John had a US social security record (which names his parents), possibly as a result of his living there in the 1920s-30s or perhaps he and his wife later went to live with their daughter for a bit? Trees seem to indicate he also had a son, perhaps born in America in the 1930s.

Yes, very good - all seems to line up, well done. 

I was thrown a little by the reference to him in the Dublin Metropolitan Police - it seemed a little odd to me. But it does looks like it is him and he went from soldiering in the great war to policing in the Irish revolution. He lived an interesting life. 

There is a record on findmypast John Campbell DMP which maybe him - I don't have a subscription, but would be interesting to confirm it is him. 

I'd be interested in knowing when he left the DMP. In theory he had the option of transferring to the newly founded An Garda Siochana - which would have been a good pensionable job , but he seems to have opted out. 

Jervis

Edited 23 April by Jervis

[Will86]

14 hours ago, Jervis said:

Jack Campbell enlisted in the RAMC at Aldershot in Feb 1913 using the alias John Larkin (his mother’s maiden name) with regimental number 6876.  He went to F&F in August 1914 and seems to have served right through to March 1919. 

Ancestry has a brief set of service records, the usual medal rolls and pension records - which confirm the use of the Alias and reference to the family address at 12 Eugene street, Dublin. 
 

Jervis

It's a little confusing, but the service record begins with the RAMC attestation, but if you carry on, there are further pages with an earlier attestation with a number 8686 renumbered on the first page, 6876 into the 4th Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. The date on the first page isn't 100% clear, but on the next page I think it says he served 190 days at home from 29/7/12 to 3/2/13. It says he got a 3rd class school certificate, and his father was James of 12, Cork Street Buildings, Dublin, and brother Francis, a soldier in the 1st Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. He had the medical exam and completed 5 months drill. Discharged in consequence of joining the regular army "Royal Army Medical Corps". Then it shows dates for RAMC:

Home 4/2/13 - 12/8/14 1 yr 190 days

British Expeditionary Force 13/8/14 - 20/10/17 3 yrs 69 days

Home 21/10/17 - 22/8/19 1 yr 306 days

Passed School Of Instruction RAMC Aldershot 19 JUN 1913

Then new address for father James, 12, Eugene Street, Dublin. Brother Frank Pte. in Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Then listed under Campbell - character "Decent, hardworking and intelligent. Pd? in 1st Aid & Amb[ulance] duty. 1914 Star. Military character: very good. Some discussion about the name change (i.e. back to his birth name) when he was in Army Reserve Section B. Letter from Corporal John Campbell of 12, Eugene St., Dublin confirming his name change 10/9/19.

A character reference from a Thomas O'Neill, grocer 31/7/12 when he first joined the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, that he was sober, honest and well conducted. And a written

"I know the bearer John Larkin to be a very respectable and trustworthy young man whom I am sure will give every satisfaction signed Thomas O'Neill"

John received the 1914 Star, British War & Victory medals.

 

 

 

[Jervis]

19 minutes ago, Will86 said:

It's a little confusing, but the service record begins with the RAMC attestation, but if you carry on, there are further pages with an earlier attestation with a number 8686 renumbered on the first page, 6876 into the 4th Battalion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

Thanks for flagging that - I thought the Service Records were 2 pages only, I did not see the extra pages. 

The 4th/RDF was special reserve - basically part-time soldiering. I suspect Jack, like a lot of guys joined up the special reserve with a view to joining the regular army when possible. 

Interesting that he was actually discharged from the army in August 1919. Right before his wedding and he must have immediately joined the DMP that month. 

[Will86]

1 hour ago, Jervis said:

Yes, very good - all seems to line up, well done. 

I was thrown a little by the reference to him in the Dublin Metropolitan Police - it seemed a little odd to me. But it does looks like it is him and he went from soldiering in the great war to policing in the Irish revolution. He lived an interesting life. 

There is a record on findmypast John Campbell DMP which maybe him - I don't have a subscription, but would be interesting to confirm it is him. 

I'd be interested in knowing when he left the DMP. In theory he had the option of transferring to the newly founded An Garda Siochana - which would have been a good pensionable job , but he seems to have opted out. 

Jervis

Ah, good thinking on trying the address! I wasn't sure what DMP was, so thanks for this. Unfortunately I also don't have a current FMP sub, perhaps another reader does ?? It seems Jack and his family travelled about a fair bit - they were actually in the Bronx in 1930 at Southern Boulevard, Block E, Assembly District 7, John was a footman in a hotel with wife Bridget and daughter Eileen

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/6224/images/4661153_00906?treeid=&personid=&pId=30596562

it looks like his daughter Eileen may have married a GI, Harry A. Denholm in Kensington in 1945 - in 1950 they were at East Avenue, Akron, Summit Co., Ohio

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/62308/images/43290879-Ohio-046665-0025?treeid=&personid=&pId=206727355

Eileen passed away in 2003

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/16673682:60901

 

Edited 23 April by Will86

[Will86]

On 23/04/2024 at 11:50, Jervis said:

Thanks for flagging that - I thought the Service Records were 2 pages only, I did not see the extra pages. 

The 4th/RDF was special reserve - basically part-time soldiering. I suspect Jack, like a lot of guys joined up the special reserve with a view to joining the regular army when possible. 

Interesting that he was actually discharged from the army in August 1919. Right before his wedding and he must have immediately joined the DMP that month. 

Thanks for the explanation about the Royal Dublin Fusiliers 4th Battalion being special reserve - if you look at the dates, Jack was actually still 15 when he joined! And then about 16 years 4 months when was transferred to the RAMC. Looks like Jack lived in an interesting post war life living in three countries. I couldn't find him with Brigid Patricia in 1950 in the US so I assume he was in either Ireland or the UK. I wonder if he only talked about the war later on in life, I know for so many it wasn't something they wanted to discuss or dwell on for many years afterwards.

[museumtom]

Gay Byrnes father. https://www.independent.ie/life/gay-byrne-on-his-fathers-service-in-world-war-1/30270484.html

[Will86]

5 hours ago, museumtom said:

Gay Byrnes father. https://www.independent.ie/life/gay-byrne-on-his-fathers-service-in-world-war-1/30270484.html

Thanks for this Tom, very moving and fascinating story. The idea that you would be re-shoeing your horse while under massive bombardment is quite unbelievable to imagine, and I can imagine it the ability to do that was a necessity as you weren't going to be scrabbling around getting someone else to do it for you. Interesting to know the info about Guinness and that they offered a job for life for those who volunteered.

I found this 2012 thesis by Paul Taylor of Oxford University, that you may already be aware of, of how returning soldiers were met in Ireland, and their experiences of Independence, the Civil War and afterwards and their treatment by the British and Irish governments. Jack has a short mention at the beginning (about the negative reaction of two women on his return)

Heroes or traitors?: experiences of returning Irish soldiers from World War One to the part of Ireland that became the free state covering the period from the Armistice to 1939 - ORA - Oxford University Research Archive

it seems to have been published as a book by Liverpool University Press in 2015, paperback 2016

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Heroes-Traitors-Experiences-Returning-Reappraisals/dp/1781383383/

reviewed in the Canadian Journal of Irish Studies in 2019 (academic institution link)

Review: [Untitled] on JSTOR