Widow' pensions paid to 12 months after end of war

[alf mcm]

   From March 1918 army widows could be paid a pension of 15 shillings per week if their husband's death was not due to aggravated by active service. This amount was to be paid until 12 months after the end of the war. 

  The is another thread on this forum regarding when the war ended. Would I be correct in assuming that the pension mentioned above would be paid until 12 months after the official date [as used by CWGC} of 31st August 1921?

Regards,

Alf McM

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

That date comes from the "Termination of the Present War (Definition) Act 1918 and is very much a catch all date where other specific conflict end dates haven't been specified eg:

• Germany on 10 January 1920^[2]
• Austria on 16 July 1920^[3]
• Bulgaria on 9 August 1920^[4]
• Hungary on 26 July 1921^[5]
• Turkey on 6 August 1924^[6]

For all other purposes, the war was declared to have ended on 31 August 1921.^[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termination_of_the_Present_War_(Definition)_Act_1918

 

Edited 8 September , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[ss002d6252]

Just looking through one of their guidance manuals now.

The power of the MoP to deal with claims expired on 30 Sep 1921 - end of war plus 30 days - after which any new claims went to the relevant service and then only where it was something Great War related did the MoP get involved.

Time limits for pension claim purposes do however seem to have treated 31 Aug 1921 as the date to use for some purposes and 30 Sep 1921 for others - the official guidance is far from clear as to which date applies in respect of Article 15.

Craig

[alf mcm]

Thanks Dai and Craig.

  It looks like these pensions were paid until the end of August or September 1922.

Regards,

Alf McM

 

[ss002d6252]

10 minutes ago, alf mcm said:

Thanks Dai and Craig.

  It looks like these pensions were paid until the end of August or September 1922.

Regards,

Alf McM

 

It's a strange one as you would expect the official manuals would mention it but they gloss over the detail.

Craig

[Matlock1418]

13 hours ago, alf mcm said:

From March 1918 army widows could be paid a pension of 15 shillings per week if their husband's death was not due to aggravated by active service. This amount was to be paid until 12 months after the end of the war. 

Previously from the Royal Warrant of April 1917 the temporary Article 15 pension was 10/- pw for the period of the war plus 12 months afterwards

13 hours ago, alf mcm said:

Would I be correct in assuming that the pension mentioned above would be paid until 12 months after the official date [as used by CWGC} of 31st August 1921?

11 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

The power of the MoP to deal with claims expired on 30 Sep 1921 - end of war plus 30 days

10 hours ago, alf mcm said:

It looks like these pensions were paid until the end of August or September 1922.

10 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

It's a strange one as you would expect the official manuals would mention it but they gloss over the detail.

War Pensions Act 1920

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/10-11/23/section/2/enacted

2  Application of War Pensions Acts

The expression " the present war " in the War Pensions Acts shall mean any war carried on by His Majesty at any time during the period from the fourth day of August, nineteen hundred and fourteen, to the thirtieth day after the date fixed under the Termination of the Present War (Definition) Act, 1918, as the date of the termination of the present war, both inclusive, and accordingly, unless the context otherwise requires, references in those Acts to pensions, grants, and allowances, and to deceased or disabled officers or men, shall respectively be construed as references to pensions, grants, and allowances, granted, made, or awarded in respect of wounds, disablements or other matters suffered, incurred, or happening during the said period, whether the officers or men to or in respect of whom the pensions, grants, or allowances are granted, made or awarded, retired or are discharged from the service, or die before the expiration of the said period, or whether they so retire or are discharged or die after the expiration of the said period, and to officers and men who have died or been disabled through causes arising out of their service during that period, whether they retire or are discharged from the service or die before the expiration of the said period, or whether they so retire, or are discharged, or die after the expiration of the said period :

Provided that nothing in this section shall affect the operation of section three of the [9 & 10 Geo. 5. c. 53.] War Pensions (Administrative Provisions) Act, 1919.

Thus for a temporary Article 15 Widow's pension [Soldier's death not attributable or aggravated by service] ... plus 12 months.

But it still seems rather vague as to which termination of war date would actually apply to a specific soldier [would likely be a right pain to establish that I think the MoP would have probably have wished to avoid I reckon] - The 31 August 1921 would probably seem the likeliest 'end' so that would seem likely to allow pensions into/to the end of September 1922.

:-) M

[ss002d6252]

12 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Previously from the Royal Warrant of April 1917 the temporary Article 15 pension was 10/- pw for the period of the war plus 12 months afterwards

War Pensions Act 1920

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/10-11/23/section/2/enacted

2  Application of War Pensions Acts

The expression " the present war " in the War Pensions Acts shall mean any war carried on by His Majesty at any time during the period from the fourth day of August, nineteen hundred and fourteen, to the thirtieth day after the date fixed under the Termination of the Present War (Definition) Act, 1918, as the date of the termination of the present war, both inclusive, and accordingly, unless the context otherwise requires, references in those Acts to pensions, grants, and allowances, and to deceased or disabled officers or men, shall respectively be construed as references to pensions, grants, and allowances, granted, made, or awarded in respect of wounds, disablements or other matters suffered, incurred, or happening during the said period, whether the officers or men to or in respect of whom the pensions, grants, or allowances are granted, made or awarded, retired or are discharged from the service, or die before the expiration of the said period, or whether they so retire or are discharged or die after the expiration of the said period, and to officers and men who have died or been disabled through causes arising out of their service during that period, whether they retire or are discharged from the service or die before the expiration of the said period, or whether they so retire, or are discharged, or die after the expiration of the said period :

Provided that nothing in this section shall affect the operation of section three of the [9 & 10 Geo. 5. c. 53.] War Pensions (Administrative Provisions) Act, 1919.

Thus for a temporary Article 15 Widow's pension [Soldier's death not attributable or aggravated by service] ... plus 12 months.

But it still seems rather vague as to which termination of war date would actually apply to a specific soldier [would likely be a right pain to establish that I think the MoP would have probably have wished to avoid I reckon] - The 31 August 1921 would probably seem the likeliest 'end' so that would seem likely to allow pensions into/to the end of September 1922.

:-) M

I know about the War Pensions Act 1920 but that was applicable to the powers of the MoP to administer rather than for determining pension entitlement itself. At the end of the 30 days the power of the MoP to be the primary body dealing with pensions ceased and all new cases went to the relevant service first (and then on the MoP only if they were needed to deal with war time issues).

The actual guidance from the MoP is pretty silent on the issue but there are hints that they were unsure themselves due to the wording of the Acts and Warrants. Documents which should have really gone in to the matter gloss over it and, where dates are available, some things used the August date and others the September date.

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

I know about the War Pensions Act 1920 but that was applicable to the powers of the MoP to administer rather than for determining pension entitlement itself. At the end of the 30 days the power of the MoP to be the primary body dealing with pensions ceased and all new cases went to the relevant service first (and then on the MoP only if they were needed to deal with war time issues).

The actual guidance from the MoP is pretty silent on the issue but there are hints that they were unsure themselves due to the wording of the Acts and Warrants. Documents which should have really gone in to the matter gloss over it and, where dates are available, some things used the August date and others the September date.

I knew you knew :-) Yes, for pension administration.

We agree, a rather unsatisfactory vague scenario derived/arose at the MoP for the end date - but in the absence of anything else what else could they have used?

:-) M