Looking of information on my Great Uncle, Buried in Baghdad North Gate Cemetery

[Stephen Milne]

Any assistance here would be gratefully received. My Great Uncle Daniel Sullivan, joined up under the name of James Edwards , he joined the 6th Battalion of the Irish rifles and is buried in Baghdad (grave 33) per the attached record. It appears to me that his body was repatriated from Afion Kara Hissar sometime in the 1920's. That suggests that he was a POW of the Turks and died in captivity. However, his record (such as it is) states that he died of dysentery in Mesopotamia! Can anybody shed any light on this, are these two explanations compatible with each other? 

I think the Irish Rifles may have been at Suvla?

Thanks for any help

 

Stephen

   

[charlie962]

Stephen, Welcome to the Forum. Good job you know about the alias.(Soldiers Effects confirms this)

Edwards J, 7522 (Dundee) Royal Irish Rifles, was reported missing in the Daily Casualty List of 20/6/1918. This would suggest actually went missing perhaps a month earlier ie c 20/5/18 (but see below)

This is a problem because according to the LongLongTail :

10th (Irish) Division -6th Bn, the Royal Irish Rifles     disbanded 15 May 1918  Deir-el-Nidham (We are talking Palestine)

When a unit was disbanded the men were normally(but not always!) posted to another Bn in the same Brigade. However they often still identified themselves with their old Bn. So the question is which unit was he serving with when he went missing?

-ah- There is a RedCross Enquiry record on FindmyPast that tells us he was reported missing 1/5/18 with the 6th R Irish Rifles. Soldiers Effects on Ancestry says he died Palestine with 6th R Irish Rifles. As you have noted above, the fact is that he was captured, shipped to Afion Kara Hissar PoW Camp where he died from Dysentery. After the war ended, all those burials at AKH were exhumed and moved to Baghdad.

Also in the same missing list of 1/5/18 was W Patton 9791 of 6th Bn. He too had Dysentery (and Malaria) but survived. His surviving Service Record tells us little that helps with Edwards but does confirm he too was a PoW . There do not seem to be any ICRC PoW records indexed for him. Not entirely suprising because the Turkish supply of information, thin at the best of times, seemed to reduce to a trickle by mid 1918. There is probably a record deep in an archive somewhere. Normally when a man died in 1917 or 1918 there is a listing/notification but I could not find it.

Unfortunately the War Diary of 6thBn for this time held at Discovery National Archives has not yet been digitised, so no help there.

His Medal Index Card shows he first entered France(Edit-see later post) 23/9/15. Since the 6th Bn were in Gallipoli (and had left by that date so he could not have served there) then Salonika it suggests he was with another Battalion at first and transferred to the 6th Bn on...?? . LongLongTrail here tells you their movements. His original number 3/7522 means that it was allocated when he first joined the 3rd Battalion which was home based.

Charlie

PS- did you find a Service record for Edwards ?

4 hours ago, Stephen Milne said:

his record (such as it is)

 

Edited 30 August , 2021 by charlie962

[Stephen Milne]

Thanks Charlie,

The information I have was that his service record was destroyed in the bombing of WW2!

I did know there was a Red Cross enquiry but I couldn't locate a reply

So do you know if the 6th Battalion were involved in a battle just prior to 1/5/18, that could explain his capture?

Stephen

 

 

 

 

[charlie962]

2 minutes ago, Stephen Milne said:

So do you know if the 6th Battalion were involved in a battle just prior to 1/5/18, that could explain his capture?

I do not. Lack of digitisation of Palestine War Diaries makes life difficult. Try looking in this Official History of Military Operations in Egypt and Palestine (Vol2)

Charlie

[Stephen Milne]

The only other reference number that I can find for him is WO 372/6/169809

Could that be his service number??

 

Stephen

 

[charlie962]

1 minute ago, Stephen Milne said:

 WO 372/6/169809

Input that to Discovery National Archives and you find it is his Medal Index Card

[Stephen Milne]

thank you again, bit of reading to do!

 

[charlie962]

36 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

His Medal Index Card shows he first entered France(Edit-see later post) 23/9/15. Since the 6th Bn were in Gallipoli (and had left by that date so he could not have served there) then Salonika it suggests he was with another Battalion at first and transferred to the 6th Bn on...?? .

Correction. That is what the card says but the Medal Roll, from which the card is prepared, shows theatre 2B not theatre 1 as on the card. ie transcription error on card. Thus he appears to have joined the 6th Bn as they left Gallipoli via Mudros and went to Salonika.

War Diary for the Salonika period at Nat Archives has not been digitised. Pretty poor.

Charlie

PS Edwards would probably also have picked up Malaria in Salonika as most did. It would not have helped his health. Conditions (medical and nutritional) in PoW camp at Afion Kara Hissar in 1918 were very bad although improved somewhat on previous years.

[helpjpl]

Battle of Tell 'Asur 08-12 March 1918.  Weeks before 'James Edwards' was reported missing but may be of interest:

https://www.royal-irish.com/events/action-at-tell-asur-judean-hills-palestine

Click on the map to see the advance of 6th Bn RIR in Palestine.

JP

[Stephen Milne]

Thank you for that, its a long way from Afion Kira Hissar, 

Would the Turks have marched their POW such a long way?

Stephen

 

[MaureenE]

As far as I am aware, POWs from Palestine were sent by train. It was the POWs from Mesopotamia, following the fall of Kut who were forced to march long distances.

For background reading see the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Prisoners of the Turks (First World War)

https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Prisoners_of_the_Turks_(First_World_War)

Maureen

[Stephen Milne]

Thanks Maureen, 

I maybe phrased my reply badly!

Is it reasonable for POW's in Palestine to have ended up in Afion Kira Hasser?

Its just me trying to reconcile his "death" in Mesopotamia with his body being repatriated from the POW camp but if he was captured in Palestine then its reasonable for him to have ended up in the AFH camp?

Stephen

 

 

 

 

[helpjpl]

On 30/08/2021 at 12:22, Stephen Milne said:

 his record (such as it is) states that he died of dysentery in Mesopotamia! 

And the register of Soldiers' Effects records that he died in Palestine! 

JP

Edited 31 August , 2021 by helpjpl

[Stephen Milne]

Yes that is the issue, his grave record says that his body was repatriated from Afion Kira Hissar in the 1920's

Its this apparent discrepancy that I cant figure out, if he died in Palestine, how did he get to AKH?

 

[charlie962]

Stephen,

 

It was quite normal for Palestine PoWs, even Suez Canal PoWs, to end up in AfionKH along with Mesopotamia and Dardenelles men. AKH was a major camp for ORs and also held officers. They would be transported by rail via Aleppo then through the Amanus Mountains, the Taurus Mountains and on via  Konia.

The tunnels etc through those two mountain ranges were largely built by British, Indian and Anzac PoWs as well as Turkish workers during 1916 and 1917. All under supervision of the Germans, as it was part of the projected Berlin Baghdad Railway. Large numbers of PoWs died in the process. Most of the work on this part of the line was complete by 1918 and the intervening camps closed down or dramatically reduced. Afion was the first major camp en route to Constantinople.

With the advance of British forces in Palestine 1918 the PoWs would have been shipped up pretty promptly.

Here is a Map of the Railway system in 1918. A bit cluttered but it gives you an idea. (I cannot recall source- perhaps Moberly's Official History?)

 

charlie

Edited 31 August , 2021 by charlie962

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, Stephen Milne said:

if he died in Palestine,

He did not die in Palestine but was captured in Palestine. Information flow from Turkey to International Red Cross Geneva was poor (Turkey was collapsing at this point.

[Stephen Milne]

Thanks Charlie,

Starting to add up a bit now, I guess his death at AFK only came to light with the repatriation of the bodies, well after the war and either the bureaucracy didn't notice or it was simply impractical to change the records!

Its quite a thought to consider that his immediate family would not have known what we know now!

 

Stephen