Mapping the 16th Manchesters - My Google Map

[DaveMurphy]

Team,

https://www.google.com.au/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1Civ3fpuQ9zVsZgqtq2EBp6KAJnm5N0bZ&usp=sharing

I have generate a Google ‘My Map’ for my Great-Grandfathers Battalion, and included the following layers:

- major action locations

- burials and commemorations

- POWs and their initial holding locations

- POWs and their home address

- Honours by action

- daily location by War Diary.

I’d be interested if anyone else has done the same, and could show me other ways to use it. As I am still adding to the layers and data, I haven’t added any pictures yet, as I think these will be wiped every time I update.

Makes for an interesting spread of data on the map, and a pretty cool way of showing the 16th's involvement in the war (I think at least anyway!)

A few notes:

- About 150 POW home locations are out, and Google plots them where it thinks, or throws an error. Some of these errors would be because the house location no longer exists. eg. PTE Thomas Fahey 12 East St, Stockport. East St is there but the house has obviously been demolished. Some are clearly out/in the wrong country, but I don't have enough local knowledge (I am in Sydney, Australia after all) to know what fits.

- Google Maps stacks locations on top of one another so have had to spread them out so you can read the names. You can either zoom right in to separate them (Kassel as a holding place for POWs for example), or use the search.

- As far as I can tell, you can't add data to the map (such as photos etc) but only to the underlying table. So if there are any updates/changes you need to do it to the source data first, then reload the whole layer again, which loses all the photos. Using Google Earth rather than Maps might be better at this.

- While they were a 'Pals' Battalion at inception, it is pretty clear that through casualty and reinforcement across two years, going by the POW data alone, they were a pretty mixed bunch by the end of the war.

- I have not yet been able to find citations for all the honours (even though many won't exist for the MM's). As I go through the War Diary, I will match up as many as I can with actions where possible. For New Years and foreign decorations, I placed them at the MOD in London. Unless someone can tell me where the Gazette was published, and I will shift them to there instead.

- There's a few errors in the lists contained in the 16/17/18/19 Manchesters Book. In particular many of the Officers listed as KIA, were instead POWs. Not knowing when the data was compiled, I presume it was assumed they were KIA, so guessing the book was compiled in late 1918, early 1919.

- Through matching it up, I found that the photos taken in the 'Manchester City Battalions' book were taken at Heaton Park, which you can Google Street view the main building, and get a nice view of the spot (of the Officers photo at least). Many of you locals probably knew this but I thought it was pretty cool to see. :-) The photo of the Bn Officers with names listed in Nash's 'Diary of an Unprofessional Soldier' was also taken in front of the Heaton Park lines. Temporary buildings which I assume were demolished after the war.

- Doing a straight database pull of the CWGC website by searching for '16th Manchesters' doesn't get everyone, as some as listed by Company which omits them from the search results. I found the rest by matching them up with the data from the 16/17/18/19 etc book, then going back to the CWGC site.

- Interesting that PTE Kelly (DOW 8/5/1920) is buried in Dalton-in-Furness Cemetery, not far from home in Barrow-in-Furness. One of the few I suspect to do so, and maybe a comfort for his family.

- I have only done the first page of the War Diary so there is lots more to be added!

Let me know if you'd like to see anything else or any corrections to the data, and I'll have a play with it.

Cheers,

Dave

[Madmeg]

cool.

Google earth has that timeline thing which could give you another dimension to play with.

That is so much work you have done!

[DaveMurphy]

4 minutes ago, Madmeg said:

cool.

Google earth has that timeline thing which could give you another dimension to play with.

That is so much work you have done!

Thanks Meg,

I thought I would get this all down first, and then transport it into Google Earth. I assume there I can overlay trench maps etc to get a bit more realism into the major action locations, and better accuracy. 

Most of the data came form the hard work of others, so I can only take credit for mapping it.., which is relatively easy once you know the tricks. 

I assume also that I can 'fly through' the Diary timeline on Google Earth and make it real fancy... alas I still have a lot to learn with it!

Cheers,

Dave

[Alan24]

Great work Dave,

Have you thought of linking photos of monuments like this for the 2nd & 16th Btns at Manchester Hill/Manchester Redoubt, located out side the church in Francilly-Selency?

I suppose you could also link to pics of headstones.

 

 

 

  

Edited 30 August , 2021 by Alan24

[DaveMurphy]

Yes that is definitely the intention Alan, once I figure out how to link an image or hyperlink to the underlying data table rather than the Google Map itself, because any update to an entry seems to wipe them out, as it doesn't actively search back to the table update info, you have to delete and re-import from scratch. Ideally I would add a hyperlink to the CWGC  and a headstone image so they come up automatically but I don't think a CSV format data input will do that. Might have to try another option. 

I am going to play around with adding 'markers' though for fixed locations such as the memorials above, so I can add the photos and a bit of a narrative. 

Cheers,

Dave  

[robertb]

Great idea.  I'll give it a go with one of the Welsh Regiments.

The position of Harold James 6261 - I think you might have the wrong Station Road!  The one you have is in Llandaf North, not Llanfaircaereinon.

[DaveMurphy]

45 minutes ago, robertb said:

Great idea.  I'll give it a go with one of the Welsh Regiments.

The position of Harold James 6261 - I think you might have the wrong Station Road!  The one you have is in Llandaf North, not Llanfaircaereinon.

Thanks Robert, 

I have found that it plots its best guess based on the info provided, which are sometimes off.

I see that Llanfair Caereinon is two words in google maps, but there’s no Station Rd that I can find their. So it’s likely the info on the POW register that I took it from is wrong and it’s either Llandaf North, or the Llanfarfechen or the far more exotic sounding Llanfairpwllgwyngyll! I’m in Sydney, Australia so no expert on Wales, Princes of Wales, or any other type of large marine fauna. :-)

I’ll put it down as an error, and see if I can get a more accurate address.

Let me know if you need any help starting up, but I’m sure you’ll overtake my level of skill pretty quickly. 

Thanks for spotting it!

Cheers,

Dave

 

[charlie2]

4 hours ago, DaveMurphy said:

So it’s likely the info on the POW register that I took it from is wrong

The register & ICRC records are the same - Llanfaircaereinon.

Charlie

[DaveMurphy]

Thanks Charlie,

I've had a good look around Llanfair Caereinion via Google Maps. Its quite a small town, and I don't see a Station Rd there anywhere. I would presume that a Station Road would lead to a railway station or yard, but there's none there either that could have been named, from what I can see.  

There is a 'Station Road' in Welshpool, so that could be it. Looks like a light industrial area now, so if there were houses there, they are now car junk yards and waste recyclers.

Cheers, 

Dave