Relief of the 4th Royal Scots by 6th HLI 13th November 1917

[ddycher]

All

Strange one. I am trying to track down a fine point of detail. Have again been looking at actions at Brown Hill nr Burkah on 12th and 13th November 1917. Got a lot of misc references which contradict each other in the detail. I am chasing down movement of men from D Coy, 1/5th Devons who were with the remains of the 4th Royal Scots on the hill when they were relieved by the 6th HLI.

The 5th Devons had relieved the 2/3rd Gurkhas who had in turn supported the 4th Royal Scots once they had been pushed off the hill having taken it on the 12th. When the 5th Devons themselves retired they left a half Coy of men with the remnants of the 4th Royal Scots who were then down to, I believe, 1x officer and around 100x OR’s. I can not find detail on when the 1/6th HLI actually made it to the hill. I have a number of ref’s to them getting lost on the way to relieve the 4th Royal Scots and stumbling in to the Turks in the dark but can not put a time to the actual relief.

The half Coy (D Coy) of the 5th Devons should have rejoined the Bn before the 5th Devons advanced down the road to Yazur and Mesmiyeh but I have tantilising ref’s that say the men from D Coy were still with the 4th Royal Scots later in the morning. This puts the CO of D Coy, 5th Devons out of the action at Mesmiyeh and blows a hole in what I thought were solid records on the day.

Can anyone help with any insights ?

Regards

Dave

Edited 29 August , 2021 by ddycher

[Neill Gilhooley]

Morning Dave, I don't think this will help you but as I have Ewing's The Royal Scots 1914-1919 next to me I thought I would add these pages: 

Their relief is not dealt with.

[ddycher]

Many thanks Neill.

Interesting the different views these events have. 75th Div ref’s state that Huddleston the GOC 232nd Bde saw the 4th Royal Scots in trouble and sent in the Gurkhas whilst here Mitchell is said to have asked for assistance.The Gurkhas seem to have gone forward with only 1x BO Rennisson who was killed before reaching the 4th Royal Scots lines.

All helps build the picture. Thank you.

Regards

Dave

[Eran Tearosh]

Dave, 

In what I was able to find, the 1/5 Devon's arrived at the top of Brown Hill at 01:00 (Nov. 13th) and replaced the 2/3 Gurkha. 

As to the 4 R.S.: "The gallant remnant of this unit was relieved at 7 p.m. (Nov. 12th) by two companies of the 6th H.L.I., who arrived on time to take part in the last scuffling in the darkness, losing one man killed and another wounded" (The Fifty-Second Lowland Division 1914 - 1918 / R. R. Thompson. P. 409).

Hope this helps. Would be easier to have the War Diaries.

Eran

 

 

Edited 2 September , 2021 by Eran Tearosh

[ddycher]

Many thanks Eran

I have been challenging the ref of a 7pm relief by the 6th HLI as I was trying to place, and time, Huddleston’s meeting with Eastmead (the CO of the 2/3rd Gurkhas). Eastmead off the hill with 2 Coys of the Gurkhas had lost touch with his Coys on the Hill and Huddleston sent up the 5th Devons to confirm. My previous assumption was this was around 9~10pm on the 12th. The 5th Devons arriving on the hill after midnight.

The scuffle between the 6th HLI and Turks I had been unable to place unless there were fragments of the Turks left on the left face of the hill, long after the 4th Royal Scots and the Gurkhas reclaimed the summit. Now potentially they overshot the hill and came up the north face running into the retreating Turks. Previously I had been looking at a much later relief of the 4th Royal Scots.

It would appear that there was no contact between the 156th Bde and 232nd Bde for more than 8 hours after Huddleston originally got permission to send up the Gurkhas. 6 after the 6th HLI arrived. Have found no intra brigade coms todate.

This leaves 2 Coys of 6th HLI and Half D Coy 5th Devons on the hill at first light on 13th. Still unable to track the return of the D Coy men to the Bn. Further challenging my data points for movements on the morning of the 13th.

Devil as they say is in the detail.

regards

Dave