Royal Irish Regiment 7th (South Irish Horse) Battalion

[MacBrac]

My wife's great uncle, Barry Devanny, was killed in action on 15 March 1918. I am trying to find out what that action was.. He is buried in Ste. Emilie Valley Cemetery, Villers-Faucon, Somme, France. 

Any information will be appreciated.

[FROGSMILE]

That unit was one of many in the 16th Irish Division that took heavy casualties during the onslaught in the opening days of the German Spring Offensive of March 1918.  The fighting was confused and ferocious with several battalions being enveloped and overwhelmed with few survivors, and many of those taken prisoner.  The 16th Division was among several especially badly mauled and rendered ineffective.

”7th (South Irish Horse) Battalion, Royal Irish Regiment was formed in France, from the dismounted 1st and 2nd South Irish Horse on the 1st of September 1917. They joined 49th Brigade, 16th (Irish) Division on the 14 October 1917 during the Third Battles of Ypres. In 1918 they were in action on the Somme suffering very heavy casualties. On the 18th of April 1918 the battalion was reduced to cadre strength.”

Day of the attack - 4.40am on the morning of March 21st, 1918:

“Out on the front line near Ronssoy, men from the Dublin Fusiliers, Munster Fusiliers, Royal Irish Regiment, Inniskilling Fusiliers and the Connaught Rangers all awaited the German attack and on that fateful morning the 16th (Irish) Division and the 66th (East Lancashire) Division beside them suffered the highest fatalities of all other divisions in the line – 721 and 791 respectively. The artillery bombardment pulverised the ground, the dead and dying lay everywhere, German stormtroops sprinted from the fog like ghostly shadows, and the forward zone was overrun in minutes.

Thereafter, some heroic actions took place in the battle zone but the casualties mounted and ammunition stocks quickly expired. The Fifth Army’s defensive system was a shambles and the chaotic withdrawal westwards which ensued was not orderly – it was a rout. At 2pm, Gen Gough finally issued orders to his corps commanders to begin a fighting retreat but by then it was far too late. The damage had already been done and was typified by the plight of the 7th Battalion of the Royal Irish Regiment, who started the battle that morning with 650 of all ranks. By 7pm, that evening there was just 41 still standing.

NB.  Twenty four hours after the attack began, the Germans had captured almost 150sq miles of terrain and punched a hole 20 miles deep into Allied defences. With casualties still mounting, on March 26th the remaining elements of the 16th (Irish) Division did manage to hold off a German attack for four hours before having to withdraw until by April 4th they could fight no longer. Fortunately, the German offensive also ran out of steam a few miles from the town of Amiens on the same day. Fifteen days of non-stop fighting had resulted in 7,149 casualties for 16th (Irish) Division, which when the final cost was calculated would prove to be one of the highest number suffered by any division in this particular battle.”

Afternote:  If your relative was killed on 15th March then it’s most likely that he was killed by German shelling from days before the assault, or perhaps during a patrol into the space between the lines attempting to gain information.  As Bardess says below, the battalion diary is the best place to look for daily activity and casualties among the men are usually mentioned there, although rarely by name unless an officer.  It should at least give you an idea.  Bear in mind that the date of death can sometimes be after being wounded several days earlier.  Good luck with your research.

Edited 23 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE
Typo

[Bardess]

Welcome! The War Diary on TNA is here for that period. Free registry and download

Edited 22 August , 2021 by Bardess

[clk]

Hi MacBrac,

Welcome to the Forum.

Before being moved to his current resting place his CWGC record says that he was buried at map reference 62c.E.15.c.3.8 which is likely to be closer to where he originally fell. This website should show you where that was. Depending on how much context you would like surrounding his death, in addition to the Battalion diary which Diane has linked to, it might also be worth downloading the Brigade diary and the Division diary. The (no cost) registration page to enable free downloads is here. There is help on how to read map references here.

As an observation, there is a slight doubt over the precise date of his death, as Soldiers Effects says '15.3.18   Presumed Dead'. If you would like a digital image of his headstone, it looks like the good folk at British War Graves would be able to send you one on a free of charge basis.

Good luck with your research.

Regards
Chris

 

 

Edited 22 August , 2021 by clk
hyperlink changed

[FROGSMILE]

Hello @MacBrac , did you see the information contributed above? 

Edited 22 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MacBrac]

22 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

That unit was one of many in the 16th Irish Division that took heavy casualties during the onslaught in the opening days of the German Spring Offensive of March 1918.  The fighting was confused and ferocious with several battalions being enveloped and overwhelmed with few survivors and many of those taken prisoner.  The 16th Division was among several especially badly mauled and rendered ineffective.

”7th (South Irish Horse) Battalion, Royal Irish Regiment was formed in France, from the dismounted 1st and 2nd South Irish Horse on the 1st of September 1917. They joined 49th Brigade, 16th (Irish) Division on the 14 October 1917 during the Third Battles of Ypres. In 1918 they were in action on the Somme suffering very heavy casualties. On the 18th of April 1918 the battalion was reduced to cadre strength.”

Day of the attack - 4.40am on the morning of March 21st, 1918:

“Out on the front line near Ronssoy, men from the Dublin Fusiliers, Munster Fusiliers, Royal Irish Regiment, Inniskilling Fusiliers and the Connaught Rangers all awaited the German attack and on that fateful morning the 16th (Irish) Division and the 66th (East Lancashire) Division beside them suffered the highest fatalities of all other divisions in the line – 721 and 791 respectively. The artillery bombardment pulverised the ground, the dead and dying lay everywhere, German stormtroops sprinted from the fog like ghostly shadows, and the forward zone was overrun in minutes.

Thereafter, some heroic actions took place in the battle zone but the casualties mounted and ammunition stocks quickly expired. The Fifth Army’s defensive system was a shambles and the chaotic withdrawal westwards which ensued was not orderly – it was a rout. At 2pm, Gen Gough finally issued orders to his corps commanders to begin a fighting retreat but by then it was far too late. The damage had already been done and was typified by the plight of the 7th Battalion of the Royal Irish Regiment, who started the battle that morning with 650 of all ranks. By 7pm, that evening there was just 41 still standing.

Twenty four hours after the attack began, the Germans had captured almost 150sq miles of terrain and punched a hole 20 miles deep into Allied defences. With casualties still mounting, on March 26th the remaining elements of the 16th (Irish) Division did manage to hold off a German attack for four hours before having to withdraw until by April 4th they could fight no longer. Fortunately, the German offensive also ran out of steam a few miles from the town of Amiens on the same day. Fifteen days of non-stop fighting had resulted in 7,149 casualties for 16th (Irish) Division, which when the final cost was calculated would prove to be one of the highest number suffered by any division in this particular battle.”

NB. “Twenty four hours after the attack began, the Germans had captured almost 150sq miles of terrain and punched a hole 20 miles deep into Allied defences. With casualties still mounting, on March 26th the remaining elements of the 16th (Irish) Division did manage to hold off a German attack for four hours before having to withdraw until by April 4th they could fight no longer. Fortunately, the German offensive also ran out of steam a few miles from the town of Amiens on the same day. Fifteen days of non-stop fighting had resulted in 7,149 casualties for 16th (Irish) Division, which when the final cost was calculated would prove to be one of the highest number suffered by any division in this particular battle.”

Afternote:  If your relative was killed on 15th March then it’s most likely that he was killed by German shelling from days before the assault, or perhaps during a patrol into the space between the lines attempting to gain information.  As Bardess says below, the battalion diary is the best place to look for daily activity and casualties among the men are usually mentioned there, although rarely by name unless an officer.  It should at least give you an idea.  Bear in mind that the date of death can sometimes be after being wounded several days earlier.  Good luck with your research.

 

Many thanks to all who have responded. I will follow-up the links and suggestions.

[MacBrac]

On 22/08/2021 at 21:30, FROGSMILE said:

Hello @MacBrac , did you see the information contributed above? 

Yes I did, thank you. Still learning to navigate this. Some good information which will take me a little while to digest. 

[FROGSMILE]

27 minutes ago, MacBrac said:

Yes I did, thank you. Still learning to navigate this. Some good information which will take me a little while to digest. 

No problem, I just wanted to make sure things were making some sense for you.

Edited 24 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MacBrac]

11 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

No problem, I just wanted to make sure things were making some sense for you.

Thank you.

I don't know about 'sense' but I'm getting their. My main interest in history is the 14th and 15th centuries. I am interested in WWI (I've been to Ypres and visited some of the sites around there) but haven't studied the conflict in depth. I find some of the abbreviations in the war diaries a bit tricky. For example, I guess M.G. means machine gun but what would No.1 M.M.G. Battery mean? As an ex-RAF man i don't fully understand the structure of the Army at that time (Divisions, Battalions, Regiments etc.) but I'm sure there is plenty of literature to help me. 

My family escaped relatively unharmed (physically) but the man I'm trying to find out more about was my wife's great uncle (discovered during family history research) and so is  related to my children. That makes it worthwhile for me to investigate him. I would like to discover what he was doing when he was killed (or wounded). I know where his grave is (a small cemetery compared to some)  and will probably try to visit.

I'm grateful to all for their help thus far.

[FROGSMILE]

48 minutes ago, MacBrac said:

Thank you.

I don't know about 'sense' but I'm getting their. My main interest in history is the 14th and 15th centuries. I am interested in WWI (I've been to Ypres and visited some of the sites around there) but haven't studied the conflict in depth. I find some of the abbreviations in the war diaries a bit tricky. For example, I guess M.G. means machine gun but what would No.1 M.M.G. Battery mean? As an ex-RAF man i don't fully understand the structure of the Army at that time (Divisions, Battalions, Regiments etc.) but I'm sure there is plenty of literature to help me. 

My family escaped relatively unharmed (physically) but the man I'm trying to find out more about was my wife's great uncle (discovered during family history research) and so is  related to my children. That makes it worthwhile for me to investigate him. I would like to discover what he was doing when he was killed (or wounded). I know where his grave is (a small cemetery compared to some)  and will probably try to visit.

I'm grateful to all for their help thus far.

M.M.G. refers to Motor Machine Gun Battery.  When Vickers Machine Guns were to be mobilised on motorcycles to make them more adept at moving around the battlefield, for a short time they were the responsibility of the Royal Artillery who thus set up a MMG branch.  Just as with all artillery, the basic soldier was titled gunner.  Later on when the Machine Gun Corps (MGC) was formed the MMG were absorbed and association with the artillery ceased.

To understand the structure of the Army you should look at the parent of this website here: https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/

To understand what your children’s forebear was doing when he was killed you should focus principally on the 7th Battalion War Diary as explained previously.  The date of his death suggests to me one of three fates:

1.  Killed by sporadic bombardment of the battalion’s trench lines (common in the lead up to the German offensive).

2.  Killed during a patrol between the lines attempting to glean information about enemy activity (the offensive was anticipated but no one knew where or when).

3.  Shot by a sniper whilst in a frontline trench.

Edited 25 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MacBrac]

On 22/08/2021 at 11:19, clk said:

Hi MacBrac,

Welcome to the Forum.

Before being moved to his current resting place his CWGC record says that he was buried at map reference 62c.E.15.c.3.8 which is likely to be closer to where he originally fell. This website should show you where that was. Depending on how much context you would like surrounding his death, in addition to the Battalion diary which Diane has linked to, it might also be worth downloading the Brigade diary and the Division diary. The (no cost) registration page to enable free downloads is here. There is help on how to read map references here.

As an observation, there is a slight doubt over the precise date of his death, as Soldiers Effects says '15.3.18   Presumed Dead'. If you would like a digital image of his headstone, it looks like the good folk at British War Graves would be able to send you one on a free of charge basis.

Good luck with your research.

Regards
Chris

 

 

Thanks Chris,

I'm already registered with TNA so was able to download the diaries. I understand the confusion over dates, which makes me wonder what was happening at that time. The war diaries don't say much that seems to help me but that may be because I'm not experienced in interpreting such things. However they are both interesting and disturbing in their own right.

I've requested a photograph from British War Graves, and I hope to arrange a visit with my wife at some time in the future. 

Regards

Charlie

[MacBrac]

30 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

M.M.G. refers to Motor Machine Gun Battery.  When Vickers Machine Guns were to be mobilised on motorcycles to make them more adept at moving around the battlefield, for a short time they were the responsibility of the Royal Artillery who thus set up a MMG branch.  Just as with all artillery, the basic soldier was titled gunner.  Later on when the Machine Gun Corps (MGC) was formed the MMG were absorbed and association with the artillery ceased.

To understand the structure of the Army you should look at the parent of this website here: https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/

To understand what your children’s forebear was doing when he was killed you should focus principally on the 7th Battalion War Diary as explained previously.  The date of his death suggests to me one of three fates:

1.  Killed by sporadic bombardment of the battalion’s trench lines (common in the lead up to the German offensive).

2.  Killed during a patrol between the lines attempting to glean information about enemy activity (the offensive was anticipated but no one knew where or when).

3.  Shot by a sniper whilst in a frontline trench.

As before, your help is gratefully received.

 

[vaugh]

Hi MacBrac,

Just spotted this, your man probably enlisted into the South Irish Horse as Private 2151 between the 28th July-2nd August 1916, sadly that's about the sum of the information I have on him at present.

Regards
Doug

[MacBrac]

Thanks Doug, 

Much appreciated. I have found out where he is buried an have a photo of his headstone. It is unlikely that any of his family have visited his grave, so my wife and I will pay a visit when travelling gets easier. 

Regards 

Charlie 

[Mick86]

On 22/08/2021 at 10:17, MacBrac said:

My wife's great uncle, Barry Devanny, was killed in action on 15 March 1918. I am trying to find out what that action was.. He is buried in Ste. Emilie Valley Cemetery, Villers-Faucon, Somme, France. 

Any information will be appreciated.

Soldiers Died has him born in Newcastlewest, Co. Limerick and enlisting in Limerick. 

This looks like his birth registration;

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/cert_amends/cert_1894/1845257a.pdf