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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

1st Northamptonshires, Sept 1914


kinnethmont

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I am interested to know where the 1st Northamptons were on 17th Sept 1914 and in turn where they might have buried an officer casulty who was killed that day.

2nd Lt Cosmo Geo Gordon was killed that day and is now buried in a concentration cemetery at Vailly sur Aisne. I have a photo of a cemetery from 7th October, sent to his father, which I believe contains his grave.

I need to confirm the location of the cemetery ties with the area they were in at that time.

Any help appreciated.

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jas, ray westlake book states that the 1st took part in the attack on troyon on the 14th september,b company fought its way up to the chemin des dames.

next day they dug in.

hope this helps

enoch

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Not much help but the 1st Northamptonshires formed part of 2nd Infantry Brigade, 1st Division. In september they were involved in the Battle of the Aisne, which finished on the 15th, but the fighting would of continued afterwards.

Vailly sur Aisne is a post war concentration cemetery as you know and is situated on the North bank of the Aisne which places your mans death in the Aisne area, which is where the northamptons were at the time. In regards to where he would of been buried before it is almost impossible to tell, the fighting would of been confused and they may well have been under fire, so would of buried him where they could.

Hope this is of he any help

Ben

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Hi Jas,

I have copies of the war diary if the 1st Northamptonshire regiment.

On Sept 17th the bn was engaged in what was called the White Flag incident. The Germans came out their trenches with a white flag. There was a parley in no-mans land and probably due to lack of proper translations a mix up about who was to surrender to whom. Being close to the British line the Germans started firing point blanc and what followed was a frenzy "the men used their butts and bayonets lustily". The exact location must be just out (east) of Troyon. The villages is little north east of a village called Verneul and east of Chivy.

The next day the Bn was relieved and marched back to Pargnan.

I did a search on private Robert Bentham, 1st Bn Northants who was killed in the same battle. I am interested in the the Photograph because Bentham's grave was also lost and he is commemorated on La Ferte memorial.

Can you scan it?

Niels

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Niels

Very interesting, Is there a Roll or mention of Lt Gordon's death?

Contact me off Forum , I will send you a full resolution image.

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Jas and Nils,

You may find this 1914 cutting from the Northampton & County Independent magazine of interest.

I cannot say for sure about the cemetery location, though a brother officer who perished the same day, Capt John Savage, is comemmorated on the LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL.

post-2-1110725696.jpg

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Second Lt Gordon is mentioned but just a small line at the end of a passage in a book on the regiment 1914-1918 (Aldershot 1932)

"Second Lieutenant Gordon also lost his life in this affair."

this was the affair:

Also that day Captain Savage was killed. He went out in no-mans land, unarmed for a parley. On his way back Lt. Dimmer, saw the Germans aiming and called out "For Gods sake get down". Captain Savage tried to get down but his scabbard stuck into the round unabling him to get down. He was shot in the back and killed.

Niels

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Niels & Kate

This account is different from the press currings version of events. I suspect that Gordon was the subaltern killed. The only officer named Dimmer in SDGW was Kings Royal Rifle Corps ( att 2/4th Berks Regt ) KIA 21/3/1918. He got a VC and an MC.

Kate can you please send me an original size image of the press cutting off Forum, thanks.

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Will do Jas. I tried posting the original in the first instance, but had to resize it as it was too flabby to sit inside the page.

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more details on the death of 2/lt Gordon.

It comes fom the book 'the first three months' of Captain E.J.Nedham 1st Northamtonshire regt.

a little summary:

.... I saw young Gordon (a fellow subaltern) crowling on his tummy towards me from the right flank of the company.

Shortly after Savage was killed.....

Gordon who was not a foot away from me, suddenly pitched forward on his face and yelled out "Oh my God I'm hit".

Gordon was in agony and he assured again and again that he was shot through the stomach and that he was going to die. His batman went back to get the stretcher bearers.

Needham:

"Gordon got on the stretchter. He made me promise to see that his sword was sent back to his family, and his batman took it. They carried him off and I never saw him again. Poor boy, he died at the CCS the next day as he said he was going to, having suffered terribly and he was buried there. A typical cheery, plucky boy straight from Sandhurst, gazetted only that January, to whom everbody had taken a great fancy and whom I had particularly liked."

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  • 6 months later...
Hi Jas,

I have copies of the war diary if the 1st Northamptonshire regiment.

On Sept 17th the bn was engaged in what was called the White Flag incident. The Germans came out their trenches with a white flag. There was a parley in no-mans land and probably due to lack of proper translations a mix up about who was to surrender to whom. Being close to the British line the Germans started firing point blanc and what followed was a frenzy "the men used their butts and bayonets lustily". The exact location must be just out (east) of Troyon. The villages is little north east of a village called Verneul and east of Chivy.

The next day the Bn was relieved and marched back to Pargnan.

I did a search on private Robert Bentham, 1st Bn Northants who was killed in the same battle. I am interested in the the Photograph because Bentham's grave was also lost and he is commemorated on La Ferte memorial.

Can you scan it?

Niels

Hi Nils,

My Grandfather was in 2KRRC and fought alongside the 1st Northants for the duration of the war. He left a diary of the first three months. I have 2KRRC's battalion records which are very detailed. In particular 1st Northants and 2KRRC were almost wiped out in July 1917 at Nieuport Bains. Would you be intertested in swapping the Btn ear diaries?

Mike

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  • 1 month later...
Guest Simon Bull
Jas and Nils,

You may find this 1914 cutting from the Northampton & County Independent magazine of interest.

I cannot say for sure about the cemetery location, though a brother officer who perished the same day, Capt John Savage, is comemmorated on the LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL.

Kate

I seem to have missed this first time around and I am very interested in this incident as one of the men I am researching probably died in it. I cannot find the posted image on the archive forum. Would it be possible to re-post it? Sorry to be a pain

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