John William Rutland - 21592 Norfolk Regiment

[PRC]

John William Rutland, aged 37 years and 1 month enlisted at Southwark on the 22nd February 1915. He was a married Gas Fitter with two children, but only one was still under 16 at this time. Initially it looks like he was posted to the Middlesex Regiment, ending up with the 5th Battalion before being transferred to the Norfolks.

All of his service was on the home front.

He began coughing up blood on September 29th 1916 while stationed at Norwich. He had also been steadily losing weight. On examination at hospital Phthisis was suspected and a subsequent lab test found tubercular bacilli present. It was deemed to be not the result of but aggravated by ordinary military service.

He would be discharged from the Norfolk Regiment Depot on the 20th October 1916 as no longer physically fit for War Service as a result of a Tubercle of Lung. Post discharge he seems to have lived at various addresses in East Central London. He appears to have gone into remission for a while - a Medical Board dated 3rd October 1917 now rated him as having 60% loss of capacity to work rather than 100%. But another review board in October 1918 found him back to a 100% loss of capacity to work, and shortly afterwards he was admitted to hospital. A review board on the 30th July 1919 found him still 100% disabled. The same page notes "Man died 7.4.20".

The death of a "48" year old John W. Rutland was recorded in the Lewisham District of London in the April to June quarter, (Q2), of 1920. Hopefully that was a transcription error when the original quarterly index was prepared by the General Registrars Office - he would have been more like 40. There is no obvious probate calendar entry that relates to that death.

So usual questions
Is anyone one else working on putting this man forward as a non-commemoration.
Is there anything in the pension ledger cards that would assist with getting him accepted \ confirm date and place of death.

Cheers,
Peter

[PaulC78]

Not on the IFCP list, cause of death was apparently TB. The online GRO index also has his age as 48 but it looks like the right man.

[PaulC78]

He's on several family trees on Ancestry. According to the baptism record he was born on 21 Feb 1872, the son of John and Mary Ann Rutland. He was age 24 when he married Elizabeth Caroline Emms on 25 Dec 1896. That fits with the info in his service record, so 48 would be the correct age when he died.

His burial record appears to be on Deceased Online, Chris Harley should be able to help with that if the case goes forward.

[ss002d6252]

10 hours ago, PRC said:

John William Rutland, aged 37 years and 1 month enlisted at Southwark on the 22nd February 1915. He was a married Gas Fitter with two children, but only one was still under 16 at this time. Initially it looks like he was posted to the Middlesex Regiment, ending up with the 5th Battalion before being transferred to the Norfolks.

All of his service was on the home front.

He began coughing up blood on September 29th 1916 while stationed at Norwich. He had also been steadily losing weight. On examination at hospital Phthisis was suspected and a subsequent lab test found tubercular bacilli present. It was deemed to be not the result of but aggravated by ordinary military service.

He would be discharged from the Norfolk Regiment Depot on the 20th October 1916 as no longer physically fit for War Service as a result of a Tubercle of Lung. Post discharge he seems to have lived at various addresses in East Central London. He appears to have gone into remission for a while - a Medical Board dated 3rd October 1917 now rated him as having 60% loss of capacity to work rather than 100%. But another review board in October 1918 found him back to a 100% loss of capacity to work, and shortly afterwards he was admitted to hospital. A review board on the 30th July 1919 found him still 100% disabled. The same page notes "Man died 7.4.20".

The death of a "48" year old John W. Rutland was recorded in the Lewisham District of London in the April to June quarter, (Q2), of 1920. Hopefully that was a transcription error when the original quarterly index was prepared by the General Registrars Office - he would have been more like 40. There is no obvious probate calendar entry that relates to that death.

So usual questions
Is anyone one else working on putting this man forward as a non-commemoration.
Is there anything in the pension ledger cards that would assist with getting him accepted \ confirm date and place of death.

Cheers,
Peter

Have you a link to his service record, Peter ?

Craig

[PRC]

57 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

Have you a link to his service record, Peter ?

Here's what I found on FMP just using the search criteria of Norfolk and his service number. It's described as Service record but is actually an extract to support his pension claim. https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7283907%2F127%2F1398

Looks like it is described as a Pension Record on Ancestry and looks like there may be additional paperwork there, as a second return shows a widow Elizabeth Caroline Emms - who doesn't get a named mention on the paperwork retrieved from FMP.

Sorry - no Ancestry subscription so I can't link directly

Armed with that I had another try on FindMyPast and found a second set just using search criteria of "John William Rutland".  https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7283907%2F127%2F1396

That adds two additional pages in front of whats available on the other FindMyPast link and is indexed using only his Middlesex Regiment number of 8565.

Regards,
Peter

[chrisharley9]

Hello Peter

We have at Manor Park Cemetery John William Rutland aged 48 died Park Hospital 8 Hither Green Lane which fits with a Lewisham death. Nothing to confirm E London address on burial register.

 

Ancestry.co.uk - UK, British Army World War I Pension Records 1914-1920

 

Link to pension file.

 

Please drop me a PM & I will forward burial record.

Cheers

 

Chris

 

[ss002d6252]

45 minutes ago, PRC said:

Armed with that I had another try on FindMyPast and found a second set just using search criteria of "John William Rutland".  https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7283907%2F127%2F1396

That adds two additional pages in front of whats available on the other FindMyPast link and is indexed using only his Middlesex Regiment number of 8565.

Thanks Peter - always interested in case with pension details.

Craig

[clk]

Hi Peter,

1 hour ago, PRC said:

Looks like it is described as a Pension Record on Ancestry and looks like there may be additional paperwork there, as a second return shows a widow Elizabeth Caroline Emms - who doesn't get a named mention on the paperwork retrieved from FMP.

Just to confirm that record is identical to the second set you found on FMP.

Regards
Chris

[PRC]

5 hours ago, clk said:

Just to confirm that record is identical to the second set you found on FMP.

Thanks for checking Chris.

And thank you also to @PaulC78 and @chrisharley9. You've given me the confidence to order the death certificate.

Cheers.
Peter

[PRC]

No surprise that the cause if death on the certificate is shown as Pulmonary Tuberculosis.

Image courtesy the General Registrars Office.

His home address and that of his widow, the informant, is given as 20 Galway Street, St Lukes, London, EC1.

And checking the service record, written at the top of one of the pages, a summary of post-discharge medical boards, there is this note.

Image courtesy FindMyPast.

So one more way in which it all ties up.

Case has now been submitted.

Thanks once again for your help,
Peter

[PRC]

Heard back from CWGC earlier today that there is sufficient evidence for them to progress and it has been referred for formal adjudication. Reference is ARMY 11285. They have picked it up along with another case I submitted on the 8th August 2021, which presumably is why this one has gone through so quickly

So if the date of submission, 26th August 2021, was day 1 of the process, this stage has been reached on day 7

Cheers,
Peter

[PRC]

John has been added today to the WW1 Roll of Honour.

CWGC webpage https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/75467894/john-william-rutland/

Day 437 since the original submission.

Rest in peace

Peter

[PRC]

Had a mail about this man earlier this afternoon from the CWGC, confirming his acceptance and that an entry had been created for him on their database.

Cheers,
Peter