4th Lincs MM, 1st July?

[garfyboy]

Hi folks

 

I am researching Percy Seward (sometimes Sewards) Wells, 3767 & 201179, 1/4th Lincolnshire regiment who was awarded the MM, L/G 10/11/16.

Howard Williamsons book states that awards for this date are from 1914 onwards but the majority are either Gallipoli or Somme awards with many 1st day Somme, the 4th didnt go to Gallipoli so the likely hood is a Somme award, Percys service record survives and he went with the BEF to France in October 1915.

Are there any 4th Lincs experts out there or others that could pinpoint the MM date 

 

thanks in advance

Andy

[Alan24]

1/4 Lincs appear to have been used as a decoy, between 56th and 46th divisions on 30/6/16 and 1/7/16 in the Somme sector.

They were then withdrawn and didn't return to the Somme until early November. 

[scottmarchand]

A general rule of thumb is that the LG dates for awards are for actions that occurred roughly 3 months earlier - so that would place your date of action in August. There is not much online with respect to the 1/4 activities other than what's mentioned above that During 1916 they participated in the The July 1 diversionary attack at Gommecourt. And were withdrawn and didn't re-enter the line until 1917. Your best bet would be to trawl the war diaries for the unit from July 1 to the late summer and see if there is any mention of him and the award recommendation. Given the intensity of fighting during the Somme campaign its very likely the processing of awards was delayed and even with that later LG date it is most probably for the 1st, as there wasn't much else they were doing that summer that could have lead to an award - baring some random circumstances affecting your man on detachment o another unit or an artillery barrage when behind the lines etc..

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354513

[PRC]

Don't know if it will add much but the official regiment history by C.R. Simpson is available to either read or download at Archive Org. https://archive.org/details/TheHistoryOfTheLincolnshireRegiment1914-1918

The bit you may be interested in is on Page 170 - a trench raid on the 29th June 1916 which by the sounds of things led to some pretty stiff fighting and could lead to the award of medals.

CWGC shows a Private 1774 Thomas Edward Sanderson, of 'D' Company recorded as having died on the 30th June 1916 - Soldiers Died in the Great War records him as Killed in Action. He is buried at Fonquevillers Military Cemetery. According to the CWGC that Cemetery is near "a village about 18 kilometres south-west of Arras. In 1915 and 1916 the Allied front line ran between Foncquevillers and Gommecourt. The cemetery was begun by French troops, and taken over by Commonweatlh forces. It remained in use by units and field ambulances until March 1917, the burials in July 1916 (particularly in Plot I, Row L) being especially numerous."
https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/20200/FONCQUEVILLERS MILITARY CEMETERY/

Lieutenant Charles Nesbitt Bond is buried in the same Cemetery https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/196649/CHARLES NESBITT BOND/

Hope that helps,
Peter

 

 

[garfyboy]

Thank you for the reply’s, it certainly looks like it could be that action on 30/6…1/7, I have trawled through the war diary and found a small list of MM,s awarded on the 16th November 1916 including Wells so obviously after confirmation in the London gazette but no mention for what action/s, I will research the other guys and just maybe there will be a mention somewhere along the way.

 

6 hours ago, PRC said:

Don't know if it will add much but the official regiment history by C.R. Simpson is available to either read or download at Archive Org. https://archive.org/details/TheHistoryOfTheLincolnshireRegiment1914-1918

The bit you may be interested in is on Page 170 - a trench raid on the 29th June 1916 which by the sounds of things led to some pretty stiff fighting and could lead to the award of medals.

CWGC shows a Private 1774 Thomas Edward Sanderson, of 'D' Company recorded as having died on the 30th June 1916 - Soldiers Died in the Great War records him as Killed in Action. He is buried at Fonquevillers Military Cemetery. According to the CWGC that Cemetery is near "a village about 18 kilometres south-west of Arras. In 1915 and 1916 the Allied front line ran between Foncquevillers and Gommecourt. The cemetery was begun by French troops, and taken over by Commonweatlh forces. It remained in use by units and field ambulances until March 1917, the burials in July 1916 (particularly in Plot I, Row L) being especially numerous."
https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/20200/FONCQUEVILLERS MILITARY CEMETERY/

Lieutenant Charles Nesbitt Bond is buried in the same Cemetery https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/196649/CHARLES NESBITT BOND/

Hope that helps,
Peter

 

 

Great work, thank you

[Ivor Anderson]

On 06/08/2021 at 06:55, garfyboy said:

I have trawled through the war diary and found a small list of MM,s awarded on the 16th November 1916 including Wells so obviously after confirmation in the London gazette

Eleven MMs to the same battalion in one LG is a significant number. As you said, they were only listed in the diary after they were confirmed by listing in the LG. That makes it likely that, either, they were awarded for a specific significant action, or that they were retrospective awards previously recommended in June 1916 for actions in 1915 or early 1916. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29819/supplement/10932

Edited 9 August , 2021 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

All 11 MMs were recommended under RP ref. 68/121/57 - as were other MMs to 2nd, 5th & 10th Battalions.

36780 Sgt. William F. Lilley 2849

36781 Sgt. H. Carter 2229

36783 Cpl. P. S. Wells 3767

36784 Cpl. George H. Peet 1978

36785   one recommended but not awarded??

36786 Pte. George R. Roy 3929

36787 Pte. J. H. Slater 3620

36788 Pte. Thomas A. Clapham 1168

36789 A/Cpl. Frank Bilton 1190

36790 Sgt. W. Inman 2208

36791 Sgt. (A/CSM) Arthur B. Howson 2644

36792 Sgt. Walter Smith 1386

Edited 9 August , 2021 by Ivor Anderson

[garfyboy]

9 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

All 11 MMs were recommended under RP ref. 68/121/57 - as were other MMs to 2nd, 5th & 10th Battalions.

36780 Sgt. William F. Lilley 2849

36781 Sgt. H. Carter 2229

36783 Cpl. P. S. Wells 3767

36784 Cpl. George H. Peet 1978

36785   one recommended but not awarded??

36786 Pte. George R. Roy 3929

36787 Pte. J. H. Slater 3620

36788 Pte. Thomas A. Clapham 1168

36789 A/Cpl. Frank Bilton 1190

36790 Sgt. W. Inman 2208

36791 Sgt. (A/CSM) Arthur B. Howson 2644

36792 Sgt. Walter Smith 1386

Hi Ivor

great work , thank you, it seems that we may never know for what action or actions these medals were awarded for but nice to a mention in the WD , I think likely for the action on 30/06

cheers

andy

[Ivor Anderson]

Pte. G. Stockdale 2374 of 1/5th Bn. was schedule no. 36799, and Sjt. Fred Warren 1709 was 36801. The 1/5th Bn. must have got a similar no. of MMs in that LG, with the schedule nos. following on from the 1/4ths. Perhaps they were for the same action?

Their WD may give more detail: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354514

Both served with 138 Infantry Brigade & 46 Division: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354468

Edited 9 August , 2021 by Ivor Anderson

[FlersChampagne]

Hi Andy, you're in luck. From mine and Howard's MM records.
Wells' MM is for the 14th April 1916. The newspaper report below lays out what happened.
Kind regards
Chris 

Retford and Worksop Herald and North Notts Advertiser - Tuesday 19 December 1916
"A LINCOLN MILITARY MEDAL.
A BRAVE DEED ON HIS OWN INITIATIVE.
Corpl. George Henry Peet, of the Lincoln Territorials, younger son of Mrs. Peet, of 9, Walnut-place, Chelmsford-street, Lincoln, has recently been awarded the Military Medal for an act of bravery in France some eight months ago. Although the recipient had an idea that he had been recommended, he mentioned nothing to his mother, and it was not until she saw the announcement in the daily newspapers that she knew of the honour so gallantly won by her son. On December 3rd he wrote home:
"I am sending you the paper as a souvenir. They gave it me last Friday when I got the ribbon pinned on."
The paper read- "Lce-Corpl H. Peet, Awarded Military Medal.- On April 14th near Louchez, at 6 p.m., the enemy fired a big camouflet, which blew in one of our saps and a listening post which had two passages leading to it. Immediately after the explosion, Lce-Corpl Peet, with Corpl. Wells, headed by Sergt. Baggley, leaped out of the trench into the open and started to clear the sandbags and debris away, so as to open the other road to the wrecked listening post. One man of the listening post was buried under the sandbags, Lce-Corpl Peet, Corpl. Wells, and Sergt. Baggley uncovered him only to find that he was already dead. This episode occurred in full view - 30 feet from the German trenches. Lce-Corpl. Peet, with the other N.C.O.s acted entirely on their own initiative, as there was no other officer nearer that Lieut. Phillips, who was quite out of touch with them, owing to the wreckage of the explosion."
Corpl. Peet is 22 years of age and is a native of Lincoln. He was educated at St. Andrew's School, and was a member of the Beacon Light Lodge of Good Templars. After leaving school he was an apprentice at Messrs Ruston, Proctor and Co.'s, and a few months prior to the outbreak of war, joined the local "Terriers." He went out to France in February, 1915, and since that time has been twice wounded - once in the head by a bullet and the next time in the fore-arm by a piece of shrapnel. He was at home on leave in May and since that time has been regularly in the trenches.
We heartily congratulate Corpl. Peet on his gallantry, and sincerely hope he will be spared to come home at the conclusion of the war to tell in his own words his wonderful story."

 

Edited 19 August , 2021 by FlersChampagne

[garfyboy]

On 19/08/2021 at 22:12, FlersChampagne said:

Hi Andy, you're in luck. From mine and Howard's MM records.
Wells' MM is for the 14th April 1916. The newspaper report below lays out what happened.
Kind regards
Chris 

Retford and Worksop Herald and North Notts Advertiser - Tuesday 19 December 1916
"A LINCOLN MILITARY MEDAL.
A BRAVE DEED ON HIS OWN INITIATIVE.
Corpl. George Henry Peet, of the Lincoln Territorials, younger son of Mrs. Peet, of 9, Walnut-place, Chelmsford-street, Lincoln, has recently been awarded the Military Medal for an act of bravery in France some eight months ago. Although the recipient had an idea that he had been recommended, he mentioned nothing to his mother, and it was not until she saw the announcement in the daily newspapers that she knew of the honour so gallantly won by her son. On December 3rd he wrote home:
"I am sending you the paper as a souvenir. They gave it me last Friday when I got the ribbon pinned on."
The paper read- "Lce-Corpl H. Peet, Awarded Military Medal.- On April 14th near Louchez, at 6 p.m., the enemy fired a big camouflet, which blew in one of our saps and a listening post which had two passages leading to it. Immediately after the explosion, Lce-Corpl Peet, with Corpl. Wells, headed by Sergt. Baggley, leaped out of the trench into the open and started to clear the sandbags and debris away, so as to open the other road to the wrecked listening post. One man of the listening post was buried under the sandbags, Lce-Corpl Peet, Corpl. Wells, and Sergt. Baggley uncovered him only to find that he was already dead. This episode occurred in full view - 30 feet from the German trenches. Lce-Corpl. Peet, with the other N.C.O.s acted entirely on their own initiative, as there was no other officer nearer that Lieut. Phillips, who was quite out of touch with them, owing to the wreckage of the explosion."
Corpl. Peet is 22 years of age and is a native of Lincoln. He was educated at St. Andrew's School, and was a member of the Beacon Light Lodge of Good Templars. After leaving school he was an apprentice at Messrs Ruston, Proctor and Co.'s, and a few months prior to the outbreak of war, joined the local "Terriers." He went out to France in February, 1915, and since that time has been twice wounded - once in the head by a bullet and the next time in the fore-arm by a piece of shrapnel. He was at home on leave in May and since that time has been regularly in the trenches.
We heartily congratulate Corpl. Peet on his gallantry, and sincerely hope he will be spared to come home at the conclusion of the war to tell in his own words his wonderful story."

 

Hi chris

wow, that is fantastic to see that report, and to add the story to the medals for future generations is a nice thing indeed, I am chuffed, many thanks for that, what a great place the GWF can be

andy

[FlersChampagne]

You're welcome Andy. Its nice when it all comes together.
Howard and I have spent over 25 years trying to reconstruct the MM roll and the stories of the lost citations.

Best wishes

Chris 

[garfyboy]

On 21/08/2021 at 14:16, FlersChampagne said:

You're welcome Andy. Its nice when it all comes together.
Howard and I have spent over 25 years trying to reconstruct the MM roll and the stories of the lost citations.

Best wishes

Chris 

Excellent, keep up the good work, do you plan on putting into a book or website in the future chris?

Andy

[Lincolnshire Lad]

On 19/08/2021 at 22:12, FlersChampagne said:

Hi Andy, you're in luck. From mine and Howard's MM records.
Wells' MM is for the 14th April 1916. The newspaper report below lays out what happened.
Kind regards
Chris 

Retford and Worksop Herald and North Notts Advertiser - Tuesday 19 December 1916
"A LINCOLN MILITARY MEDAL.
A BRAVE DEED ON HIS OWN INITIATIVE.
Corpl. George Henry Peet, of the Lincoln Territorials, younger son of Mrs. Peet, of 9, Walnut-place, Chelmsford-street, Lincoln, has recently been awarded the Military Medal for an act of bravery in France some eight months ago. Although the recipient had an idea that he had been recommended, he mentioned nothing to his mother, and it was not until she saw the announcement in the daily newspapers that she knew of the honour so gallantly won by her son. On December 3rd he wrote home:
"I am sending you the paper as a souvenir. They gave it me last Friday when I got the ribbon pinned on."
The paper read- "Lce-Corpl H. Peet, Awarded Military Medal.- On April 14th near Louchez, at 6 p.m., the enemy fired a big camouflet, which blew in one of our saps and a listening post which had two passages leading to it. Immediately after the explosion, Lce-Corpl Peet, with Corpl. Wells, headed by Sergt. Baggley, leaped out of the trench into the open and started to clear the sandbags and debris away, so as to open the other road to the wrecked listening post. One man of the listening post was buried under the sandbags, Lce-Corpl Peet, Corpl. Wells, and Sergt. Baggley uncovered him only to find that he was already dead. This episode occurred in full view - 30 feet from the German trenches. Lce-Corpl. Peet, with the other N.C.O.s acted entirely on their own initiative, as there was no other officer nearer that Lieut. Phillips, who was quite out of touch with them, owing to the wreckage of the explosion."
Corpl. Peet is 22 years of age and is a native of Lincoln. He was educated at St. Andrew's School, and was a member of the Beacon Light Lodge of Good Templars. After leaving school he was an apprentice at Messrs Ruston, Proctor and Co.'s, and a few months prior to the outbreak of war, joined the local "Terriers." He went out to France in February, 1915, and since that time has been twice wounded - once in the head by a bullet and the next time in the fore-arm by a piece of shrapnel. He was at home on leave in May and since that time has been regularly in the trenches.
We heartily congratulate Corpl. Peet on his gallantry, and sincerely hope he will be spared to come home at the conclusion of the war to tell in his own words his wonderful story."

 

Hi,

I have just discovered this website, as I was looking for information about my grandfather’s war service and I know that he was awarded the Military Medal. Thanks for posting this newspaper article. My grandfather is the Sgt Baggley referred to. I have attached a photo of him from around that time.

I don’t know if there are any local news articles that mention his award but it is great to have stumbled across this mention of him.

 Thanks again.

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, Lincolnshire Lad said:

don’t know if there are any local news articles

Welcome to the forum. There are indeed articles directly about him. 

I'm having difficulty getting download off FindmyPast newspapers at the moment but here's what you need to look up.

Just try a search for Sergt Baggley.

[charlie962]

Here's a bit of that first article, Lincolnshire Chronicle 27/5/16. Via FindmyPast 

His must have been an immediate award.

Edited 14 November , 2022 by charlie962

[Pat Atkins]

From a quick hunt around Ancestry and FMP:

3388/200956 Serjeant John Baggley MM was discharged (sickness) with a Silver War Badge on 8th September 1917.

1978/200253 Serjeant George Henry Peet MM was killed in action on 22nd November 1917, aged 22.

3767/201179 Corporal Percy Seward Wells MM was admitted wounded to No3 CCS on 21st March 1918. He is recorded as a Private (he'd been reduced in rank while attached to 7th POW Company - he has some surviving service records on FMP); his number is given in the CCS record as 201199 but I think this is probably him. If so, he was serving with 2/5th Lincolns by then. 

[FlersChampagne]

Lovely to see this all coming together for these 3 men, forever connected by their gallantry in trying to save life.

[charlie962]

We are lucky to find this. Your archive really helped.  

The blowing of a German mine, the rush to secure the rim by British soldiers, the attempts to rescue buried men. Gas. Gallantry. So many elements of frontline reality in this one episode.

Edited 15 November , 2022 by charlie962

[Pat Atkins]

Yes, I completely agree - some really good, meticulous research applied in this thread to tie so much in together. Well done.