SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Hi There, I went to Manchester Cathedral last week, and was horrified to find the front page of the Roll Of Honour for the 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment defaced with some sort of Jewish reference. Does anyone know what it is about, and how long has it been there ? Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Tim I've passed the Cathedral on many occasions but have only been inside once (and then not to the Mancs Chapel). Is the Roll of Honour not in a glass case? If so, then it it may well have been some considerable time ago that the scribble was added. I've not heard about it before now. And, for info, the initials don't obviously relate to any casualties of 22/Manchester. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 although it looks like a star of david, i somehow doubt the jewish connection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Hi John, Thanks for the reply. Yes, the original Rolls of Honour are in glass cases, but there a series of books in the same style that are for people to look through and it is in one of these, that the writing has been added, and it is in biro pen ! I would just love to know why someone would do somethng like this ! Have they no respect ? Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Hi Harribobs, You may well be right, but it is just that I know there have been things directed towards Lieut Joshua Cansino to name but one, in the past. Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Is it usual for the Star of David to be depicted in a circle, like this? Or is this an astrological depiction? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whkay Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 What does it mean? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Hi John, That is a very good point ! I hadn't thought of it in that context ! That could very well be something to do with it. Why in that book though ? You have really got me wondering now !!!! Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2005 What does it mean? Mark Hi Mark, The short answer is, we don't know !! Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 What does it mean? Mark Hi Mark, The short answer is, we don't know !! Cheers Tim. Isn't it something to do with the devil or anachists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 if it was a deliberate anti semitic graffiti, we'd probably be looking at a swastica i suspect what John is thinking of is a pentangle which is often seen in a circle (excuse me for my mind reading, mate) there's no excuse for any scribbling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Is it usual for the Star of David to be depicted in a circle, like this? Star of David. A pentangle generally has five points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Pentangle. An anarchist symbol is a large capital A within a circle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2005 if it was a deliberate anti semitic graffiti, we'd probably be looking at a swastica i suspect what John is thinking of is a pentangle which is often seen in a circle (excuse me for my mind reading, mate) there's no excuse for any scribbling Hi Harribobs, The more I think about it, the less I think it is Anti-Semitic, but now, I really would love to know what it means !! Do you think it is aimed at the 22nd Manchesters in particular, or someone in it, or it just happens to be on their page ? My mind is working overtime now !!!!!!!! Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 The clue is the smp - note the runic s Compare with the trashy Sven HaSSel novels so popular when I were but young lad. Whatever .. it's nasty/nazi. My opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harribobs Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 very unpleasant that's for sure pentangle always with 5 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 I'm not sure how we have got to anti-semitism by way of the letters SMP and a star of David, to be honest it makes no sense at all. Could it not be a jew making the point that jewish soldiers are listed in the roll and that the roll is being displayed in a church? Has anyone checked the roll for anyone with the initials SMP? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2005 I'm not sure how we have got to anti-semitism by way of the letters SMP and a star of David, to be honest it makes no sense at all. Could it not be a jew making the point that jewish soldiers are listed in the roll and that the roll is being displayed in a church? Has anyone checked the roll for anyone with the initials SMP? Andy Hi Max, That's what I was thinking ! But I'm not sure !! Is there something about the 22nd Manchesters and the Jewish Community ? as I have come across the Jewish theme and them, quite a few times !! Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Hi There, Out of interest, I have just checked my photographs, and there are no men recorded on this roll with the initials S.M.P. Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Then is it SMP ... 'something' Manchester Pals? Was 22nd 'South Manchester'? Was it an area which had many Jewish people residing? I have to say the 'S' looked very like the SS lightning flash symbol. Can't get to grips with the emblem ... nothing overtly anti-semitic ... But .. C18 have had a campaign of stickers using silhouette of 1st WW soldiers with the logo 'They didn't die for ....' and it shows people of various ethnic origins. Maybe it's just some fool who thought he was being 'the big lad' Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Then is it SMP ... 'something' Manchester Pals? Was 22nd 'South Manchester'? Was it an area which had many Jewish people residing? I have to say the 'S' looked very like the SS lightning flash symbol. Can't get to grips with the emblem ... nothing overtly anti-semitic ... But .. C18 have had a campaign of stickers using silhouette of 1st WW soldiers with the logo 'They didn't die for ....' and it shows people of various ethnic origins. Maybe it's just some fool who thought he was being 'the big lad' Des Hi Des, You make some very interesting and informed points, I can't disagree with any of them, as I don't know enough on this subject !! Your last statement about some fool thinking he's a big lad, may have some mileage though !!# Cheers Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Thinking more - does SMP in the style written have a Hebrew meaning? Any linguists? maybe 's' = Shalom (peace) i.e. rest in peace? Whatever .. it's just not on. Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 8 March , 2005 Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Sorry about the astrological deviation - I never could count - even points on a star. Perhaps we are all reading much too much into what might this just be a bit of silly graffitti from some person with the initial SMP who might be Jewish It certainly doesnt appear anti-semitic (as harribobs says, the swastika is the graffitti of choice of our local anti-semites). I'm not aware that there's any special connection between 22/Manc and the Jewish community and, certainly, you'll find possibly Jewish names throughout the lists of Pals Bns. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOMMESOLDIER Posted 8 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2005 Hi John, Another very good point. I have enjoyed this thread very much, it has taught me much ! Very many thanks for lots of food for thought !!!!!!!! Cheers Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sapper6 Posted 9 March , 2005 Share Posted 9 March , 2005 We in New Zealand have had the odd bout of anti jewish slogans and they always seem to be with a swatika. I was wondering if it may be the letters of some lunatic fringe political party with the letter P being short for party. Whatever I agree that persons anywhere in the world who deface documents such as this are beyond contempt and have no respect for the soldiers that suffered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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