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Remembered Today:

Defaced Roll Of Honour Book


SOMMESOLDIER

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Hi There, :)

I went to Manchester Cathedral last week, and was horrified to find the front page of the Roll Of Honour for the 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment defaced with some sort of Jewish reference. Does anyone know what it is about, and how long has it been there ?

Cheers

Tim.

post-1-1110310758.jpg

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Tim

I've passed the Cathedral on many occasions but have only been inside once (and then not to the Mancs Chapel). Is the Roll of Honour not in a glass case? If so, then it it may well have been some considerable time ago that the scribble was added.

I've not heard about it before now. And, for info, the initials don't obviously relate to any casualties of 22/Manchester.

John

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although it looks like a star of david, i somehow doubt the jewish connection

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Hi John, :)

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, the original Rolls of Honour are in glass cases, but there a series of books in the same style that are for people to look through and it is in one of these, that the writing has been added, and it is in biro pen !

I would just love to know why someone would do somethng like this ! Have they no respect ?

Cheers

Tim.

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Hi Harribobs, :)

You may well be right, but it is just that I know there have been things directed towards Lieut Joshua Cansino to name but one, in the past.

Cheers

Tim.

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Is it usual for the Star of David to be depicted in a circle, like this?

Or is this an astrological depiction?

John

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What does it mean?

Mark

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Hi John, :)

That is a very good point ! I hadn't thought of it in that context ! That could very well be something to do with it. Why in that book though ?

You have really got me wondering now !!!!

Cheers

Tim.

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What does it mean?

Mark

Hi Mark, :)

The short answer is, we don't know !!

Cheers

Tim.

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Guest Hill 60
What does it mean?

Mark

Hi Mark, :)

The short answer is, we don't know !!

Cheers

Tim.

Isn't it something to do with the devil or anachists?

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if it was a deliberate anti semitic graffiti, we'd probably be looking at a swastica

i suspect what John is thinking of is a pentangle which is often seen in a circle (excuse me for my mind reading, mate)

there's no excuse for any scribbling :angry:

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Is it usual for the Star of David to be depicted in a circle, like this?

Star of David. A pentangle generally has five points.

post-3-1110320396.jpg

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Pentangle.

An anarchist symbol is a large capital A within a circle

post-3-1110320602.jpg

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if it was a deliberate anti semitic graffiti, we'd probably be looking at a swastica

i suspect what John is thinking of is a pentangle which is often seen in a circle (excuse me for my mind reading, mate)

there's no excuse for any scribbling :angry:

Hi Harribobs, :)

The more I think about it, the less I think it is Anti-Semitic, but now, I really would love to know what it means !!

Do you think it is aimed at the 22nd Manchesters in particular, or someone in it, or it just happens to be on their page ?

My mind is working overtime now !!!!!!!!

Cheers

Tim.

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The clue is the smp - note the runic s

Compare with the trashy Sven HaSSel novels so popular when I were but young lad.

Whatever .. it's nasty/nazi.

My opinion.

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very unpleasant that's for sure

pentangle always with 5 points

post-3-1110321282.jpg

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I'm not sure how we have got to anti-semitism by way of the letters SMP and a star of David, to be honest it makes no sense at all. Could it not be a jew making the point that jewish soldiers are listed in the roll and that the roll is being displayed in a church? Has anyone checked the roll for anyone with the initials SMP?

Andy

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I'm not sure how we have got to anti-semitism by way of the letters SMP and a star of David, to be honest it makes no sense at all. Could it not be a jew making the point that jewish soldiers are listed in the roll and that the roll is being displayed in a church? Has anyone checked the roll for anyone with the initials SMP?

Andy

Hi Max, :)

That's what I was thinking ! But I'm not sure !!

Is there something about the 22nd Manchesters and the Jewish Community ? as I have come across the Jewish theme and them, quite a few times !!

Cheers

Tim.

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Hi There, :)

Out of interest, I have just checked my photographs, and there are no men recorded on this roll with the initials S.M.P.

Cheers

Tim.

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Then is it SMP ... 'something' Manchester Pals?

Was 22nd 'South Manchester'? Was it an area which had many Jewish people residing?

I have to say the 'S' looked very like the SS lightning flash symbol.

Can't get to grips with the emblem ... nothing overtly anti-semitic ...

But .. C18 have had a campaign of stickers using silhouette of 1st WW soldiers with the logo 'They didn't die for ....' and it shows people of various ethnic origins.

Maybe it's just some fool who thought he was being 'the big lad'

Des

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Then is it SMP ... 'something' Manchester Pals?

Was 22nd 'South Manchester'? Was it an area which had many Jewish people residing?

I have to say the 'S' looked very like the SS lightning flash symbol.

Can't get to grips with the emblem ... nothing overtly anti-semitic ...

But .. C18 have had a campaign of stickers using silhouette of 1st WW soldiers with the logo 'They didn't die for ....' and it shows people of various ethnic origins.

Maybe it's just some fool who thought he was being 'the big lad'

Des

Hi Des, :)

You make some very interesting and informed points, I can't disagree with any of them, as I don't know enough on this subject !!

Your last statement about some fool thinking he's a big lad, may have some mileage though !!#

Cheers

Tim

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Thinking more - does SMP in the style written have a Hebrew meaning?

Any linguists? maybe 's' = Shalom (peace) i.e. rest in peace?

Whatever .. it's just not on.

Des

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Sorry about the astrological deviation - I never could count - even points on a star.

Perhaps we are all reading much too much into what might this just be a bit of silly graffitti from some person with the initial SMP who might be Jewish

It certainly doesnt appear anti-semitic (as harribobs says, the swastika is the graffitti of choice of our local anti-semites).

I'm not aware that there's any special connection between 22/Manc and the Jewish community and, certainly, you'll find possibly Jewish names throughout the lists of Pals Bns.

John

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Hi John, :)

Another very good point. I have enjoyed this thread very much, it has taught me much !

Very many thanks for lots of food for thought !!!!!!!!

Cheers

Tim.

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Guest sapper6

We in New Zealand have had the odd bout of anti jewish slogans and they always seem to be with a swatika.

I was wondering if it may be the letters of some lunatic fringe political party with the letter P being short for party.

Whatever I agree that persons anywhere in the world who deface documents such as this are beyond contempt and have no respect for the soldiers that suffered.

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