Interpret this card

[Gaillimh1]

Can someone please explain this card for me.

 

 

Does this mean that J L Lynch was sent to France on December 19 1915 and if so is there any way of following in his footsteps there.

A relative.

[Mark1959]

Correct.
It also indicates that there is another medal index card for him under another ACC - Army Cyclist Corps number. See annotation at top of card - James Lynch.That will be for his British war Anne victory medals. This card is for the 1914/15 Star
The RDC is the Royal Defence Corps and he went to that after the RDC. 
He joins the Welsh Regiment in 1919

Following his footsteps is dependent on finding other records

Edited 7 June , 2021 by Mark1959

[AndrewSid]

As a novice i will give it a go.  

 

RDC - Royal Defence Corps.  So Uk garrison and protection units 

 

7616 is his welsh regiment number 

[Matlock1418]

This is Pension Index Card [for a Disability claim] at the Western Front Association / Fold3 

 

Image courtesy Western Front Association / Fold3 - with thanks

Should add a bit more for you [and help you and other GWF members] I hope

There appears to be a new Regimental Number 67640 [In the same ink and hand as Welsh]

And I think the R D F is likely to be Royal Dublin Fusiliers

:-) M

 

Edit:

There is another Pension Ledger Index Card for James Lewin LYNCH, 67640, Welsh Regiment but it reveals little more

 

[Mark1959]

7616 and 14719 were ACC numbers

94491 RDC 

67640 Welsh 

 

[Mark1959]

Given the address on the pension card this looks like the 1911 census return for him

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Galway/Dunmore_South/Ballagh__West/475357/

and 1901

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Dunmore/Ballagh_West/1398573/

There is another card that indicates he was James Lewin Lynch

Edited 7 June , 2021 by Mark1959

[Mark1959]

He applied to join the British civil service in the post office and was appointed. In 1921 his uncle Patrick had to assert JL’s age. This shows James Lewin Lynch was born 27/9/1889 at 4 Pembroke Street, Cork. His parents were Michael George and Margaret Anne Lynch. Michael was Patrick’s eldest brother. This assertion was given at Tuam on 10  Oct 1921.

[Matlock1418]

London Gazette 3 February 1922. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32598/page/970 

UNDER CLAUSE 2 OF THE ORDER IN COUNCIL OF 22ND MARCH, 1918. Post Office: ... Postmen ... James Lewin Lynch (Tuam)

:-) M

 

[AndrewSid]

A quick chronological service records check has him joining the ACC around June/July 15.

 

[Gaillimh1]

thank you for all the replies,

yes he was a postman for 30 years.

Another curious thing is another card has  indicated he got a grant of money from the King's Fund in 1921 to buy a horse, a cart and harness.

I know that under the rule book for postmen at that time they were asked to supply a horse and cart. That must have been supplanted by the bicycle.

I am curious as to how you think he joined ACC in June July 1915, I understood it was earlier, but I could be wrong. 

 I really wanted to know, was it with the ACC he went to France with and was it a particular battalion that might have landed there on that date.

 

 

[Gaillimh1]

 

[Matlock1418]

37 minutes ago, Gaillimh1 said:

yes he was a postman for 30 years.

Another curious thing is another card has  indicated he got a grant of money from the King's Fund in 1921 to buy a horse, a cart and harness.

I know that under the rule book for postmen at that time they were asked to supply a horse and cart.

Postman - Glad we got that right!

 

Those grants, at that time, were actually Military Service (Civil Liabilities) Regulations grants

Really designed to set up ex-servicemen as a one-man private businesses [at least initially]

Interesting to see that this aid might perhaps have extended somewhat into the postal service.

 

From my viewing of such cards [obviously a minority of the cards overall] the Irish do seem to have been a significant proportion of recipients of these grants

- and horse/donkey carts seem to be procured in the majority of the cases I have viewed!

[Though more frequently for hawking, turf vending and carting roles - I've never seen one potentially for a postman]

 

The Irish majority in my viewing is interesting - this might just be a reflection of cards' survival? Or perhaps the level of Irish applications ??

= I have also started to wonder if this granting was a conscious attempt by the British Government to try and help deal with the clamour for Home Rule and an Irish Free State for Ireland ???

:-) M

[Gaillimh1]

What rules were postmen subject to?

The book contains 166 rules with many of them divided further into subsections. Postmen were notified of amendments and corrections to the general rules through the postal service publication Iris an Phuist. These amendments were glued into the book or handwritten on pages.

A rural postman was not to live ‘so far from the office as to prevent him from attending punctually at the scheduled hours’. Articles to be carried by a postman if necessary included a spring balance for weighing parcels. Mounted postmen were to purchase a horse and cart at their own expense if possible.

 

This was issued by the British Government in 1921 but subsequently adapted by the new Irish state and remained in use up to the 1950s.

Thanks for your help, it is appreciated.

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Gaillimh1 said:

What rules were postmen subject to?

The book contains 166 rules with many of them divided further into subsections. Postmen were notified of amendments and corrections to the general rules through the postal service publication Iris an Phuist. These amendments were glued into the book or handwritten on pages.

A rural postman was not to live ‘so far from the office as to prevent him from attending punctually at the scheduled hours’. Articles to be carried by a postman if necessary included a spring balance for weighing parcels. Mounted postmen were to purchase a horse and cart at their own expense if possible.

 

This was issued by the British Government in 1921 but subsequently adapted by the new Irish state and remained in use up to the 1950s.

Though obviously not the main thrust of your thread - thanks for posting this interesting extra insight on Lynch's post-war career as a postman.

From this blog from the British Postal Museum https://www.postalmuseum.org/blog/postmens-whistles it appears postmen also had to carry and use whistles too

and that the Rules were still being printed in 1975.

I'm pretty sure there must be an equivalent today.

Thanks and good luck with your research.

:-) M

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

11 hours ago, Gaillimh1 said:

I really wanted to know, was it with the ACC he went to France with

As ACC is the first regiment listed on his MIC, one would normally assume that was the regiment he first entered a theatre of war with.

In his case, France on 19/12/1915.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

13 hours ago, AndrewSid said:

7616 is his welsh regiment number 

No. It's another ACC number on his second MIC

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1262/images/30850_A000983-02352?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=1427e3d544bcadc2d713bbac61b22c3b&usePUB=true&_phsrc=vSh2&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=10786032

 

Edit: Someone has suggested an alternative name of [F L Lynch] on Ancestry.

No evidence or references though. Maybe someone has mis-read or mis-transcribed  J L Lynch?

Edited 8 June , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Edit: Someone has suggested an alternative name of [F L Lynch] on Ancestry.

No evidence or references though. Maybe someone has mis-read or mis-transcribed  J L Lynch?

Have looked at what Ancestry have transcribed as a Service Record for a James Lewin Lynch however the SR seems to be for a Frederick Lynch, 27385, 11 Dublin Fusiliers, with possibly James Lewin Lynch being amongst the names of his children c.1916 [very hard to read that JLL name on Ancestry - clear on Find My Past]

- did make wonder if perhaps a relative also using a Lewin family name as a second forename ??? 

This named JL Died 1916, aged 1 month - DC in SR

FL Born: 48 Queen's Square, Dublin. Address: 48 Queen's Square, Dublin in 1916 & 1931 - seems to have gone on to 16 RDF and Labour Corps 564495

:-) M

Edited 8 June , 2021 by Matlock1418
Correction of subject soldiers forename & addition of alternative soldier's details

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The Welsh Regiment 14-15 Star Medal roll gives disembarkation date as 18/12/1915, and his unit as 16th Division ACC:

https://www.ancestrylibraryedition.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41804_626640_12087-00151?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=5bfc32c11772c0f3628bcb1173fc4562&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qNI3&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=3598610

(subscription needed)

 

The column which contained demob/discharge/transfer information for other soldiers has 6 Pro. Coy. Welsh for him.

 

He also appears in the RDC 14-15 Star roll with the disembarkation date of 19/12/1915!

https://www.ancestrylibraryedition.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41804_612057_10748-00265?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=a8e6f5fcab5d18a7cd49594920116973&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qNI5&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=5228482

 

Haven't looked up his BWM & VM Roll.

Edited 8 June , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Gaillimh1]

Thank you, that is very helpful. i will look those up.

[Matlock1418]

30 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

THe 14-15 Star Medal roll gives disembarkation date as 18/12/1915, and his unit as 16th Division ACC

This line is struck-through on the MR provided by the link, so ???

Is it perhaps on another MR?

:-) M

 

Edit: Ah, the later second MR link looks more like it.

Edited 8 June , 2021 by Matlock1418
edit

[Gaillimh1]

 I Know he was at Ypres at some point but he rarely talked about his war record. Irish soldiers got no welcome home in 1918/19.

His daughter said some neighbours didn't talk to him but he just got on with things. His grandfather was Captain James Lewin of the 30th Regiment and he was at Waterloo.

His mother was a Lewin and was a second cousin to Brigadier General Arthur Corrie Lewin. The famous Flying General who died in Kenya in 1952. he went there as part of the Soldier Settlement scheme.

 

 

 

[Mark1959]

The BW and VM roll says 6th and 10th ACC. No expert on ACC so not sure what these are. There are indications that he did not actually change unit and the difference is a change of designation. But as I say no expert.

 

[Gaillimh1]

Thank you, I will research that further, at least it is a lead to follow.

[owen4256]

 

I can shed some light on his early service. His date on entry of 19th December 1916 and his  1914-15 star roll entry show that he went overseas with the 16th Divisional Cyclist Company. 

 

The 16^th (Irish) Divisional Cyclist Company was formed at Mallow on the 16^th January 1915 The bulk of the officers and men were drawn from all thirteen infantry Battalion of the 16^th Division. On initial formation, the strength of the Company was 279 of all ranks, then the authorised establishment for a Cyclist Company. Willie Watson, later the CO: “From battalions still in embryo men were demanded to form a Cyclist Company. The wise selected carefully and the foolish sent their worst. These bunches of men were trained separately for a while, then brought together and the Company formed. Think, then, of this Company a strange and ignorant but hotly enthusiastic crowd slowly becoming disciplined, men and officers learning for themselves picking up cyclist work from an obsolete textbook and the fierce advice of the Staff, with scarce a cycle or rifle among them. They struggled hard in the face of enormous difficulties and the vilest weather, until something began to emerge. It was rough and cheerful, keen and blundering, but a Company.”

 

14719 in almost certainly his original service number on enlistment. and probably indicates  8th Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers as his first unit .7620 Private Thomas Belshaw was formerly 8/RDF 

 

At 2.20am on the 18^th December 1915, the 16th Divisional Cyclist Company paraded at Pirbright Camp to the march to Brookwood Station. CSM Michael Murphy was placed under close arrest for drunkenness on the parade and left behind. Captain Watson: “At midnight we banqueted off sausages and toast and tea. Then the officers, wearing all their equipment, went out on parade to their waiting men. The Gaspipe, collecting the last oddments, followed. The men stood eagerly in the darkness. Some of those who were being left behind clung enviously to the edge of the parade-ground. "Good-bye, Peter. Are we all ready now, Cicero? Right. Advance in file from the right of platoons. Headquarters leading!!" and they moved off into a steady tramp, singing a few songs. When they came to the station there was old Harry Tatton, one of the rejected, down on some excuse to see them off. Finally, they were entrained, and at last after an age, it seemed the train slid out of the station, and poor old Harry was left shouting on the platform. So the Irish Cyclists started overseas. . . . “

 

The local Gas Alarm was sounded at 4am on the 29^th April 1916 and the Cyclist Company was ordered to Stand To and man the alarm post. One officer and 30 men were ordered to the trenches to evacuate gas victims and four men of this party were themselves gassed. CSM Rose: “I myself got a good share of Phosgene Gas and was evacuated with many of the Dublin Fusiliers and others to the 33^rd Casualty Clearing Station, Bethune, but fortunately for me, I soon recovered and was able to return to my Company, now back in billets in Mazingarbe, after their somewhat rough baptism of fire.

 

 

The 16^th Divisional Cyclist Company was disbanded on the 1st June 1916 and the personnel were transferred to the Infantry battalions of the 16^th Division (GHQ no OB/1517) dated 12^th May 1916. The Company was the only  Divisional Cyclist Company to be disbanded entirely in France, the remainder were amalgamated into Corps Cyclist Battalions.

 

I known that drafts went to 8/RDF, 9/RDF. 7/RI Fusiliers  and 6/Connaughts.  Is is likely that James Lynch went to one of these Battalions before transferring the Royal Defence Corps . 14719 in not his Cyclist Corps number - that was assigned to Thomas Edward Talbot. It is possible that he returned to 8/RDF under his original service number.

 

The 16th's  CO, Major W H L Watson DSO DCM, wrote part of his "Tales of a Gaspipe Officer" about his time in command of the Company   These are available online in Blackwoods Magazine

 

https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=blackwoods

 

 

Love to see any photos you have of James Lynch

 

Best

 

Clive

 

 

 

[corisande]

On 08/06/2021 at 19:38, Matlock1418 said:

Have looked at what Ancestry have transcribed as a Service Record for a James Lewin Lynch however the SR seems to be for a Frederick Lynch, 27385, 11 Dublin Fusiliers, with possibly James Lewin Lynch being amongst the names of his children c.1916 [very hard to read that JLL name on Ancestry - clear on Find My Past]

- did make wonder if perhaps a relative also using a Lewin family name as a second forename ??? 

 

This James Lewin Lynch, is at best tangential to the man here. Born 1916 to Frederick Lynch