Pension Record But M.I.C. Not Found?

[snminc]

Afternoon all,

                     I'm researching Jesse Thomas Hopkins and have ran into a wee problem.I'm not sure if it's a series of typograph errors or just conincidence so i would greatly appreciate your views.

 

The Pension Ledger and Index Card gives the following information

 

Name: Jesse Thomas Hopkins

Rank: Pte

Discharge Date: 5 Feb 1919

Service Number: 447415

Corps, Regiment or Unit: Labour Corps

 

I Could not find a MIC for the name Jesse Thomas Hopkins or Jesse T Hopkins or with the Service Number 447415

 

The closest I could find has the following data:

 

Name: Thomas J Hopkins

Service Number: 3573 (K R Rifle Co) and 447414 (Labour Corps)

although the rank for the labour Corps service is Corporal.

 

Your thoughts please?

 

Many thanks

 

Scott

[DavidOwen]

Scott

 

Do you know the man's date of birth?

It is possible he only had Home Service so would not qualify for any medals.

 

David

[snminc]

Many thanks David Owen.

 

The Pension record gives a Birth Date of 1893.

 

The family story is he was a tunneller who lost his hearing (Right Ear) and sight (Left Eye) following an underground explosion.

Having befriended some Welsh Miners during his service he relocated to Wales post service.

 

(The Pension record Gives the Military Service as Wales)

[kenf48]

The 14-15 Star Roll for 447414/3573 shows Thomas Jesse Hopkins and a discharge date of the 15th February 1919 to the Class Z Reserve

The BWM & VM Roll shows:-

447415 LC was allocated to an A/Sgt Brewer formerly 202417 North Lancs

 

It would appear to be a typo, or two in the pension record.

[DavidOwen]

I suspect that as Military Service says "Wales" he didn't serve overseas and so has no medal entitlement, hence no MIC.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

You'll need to work out if your man, Jesse Thomas Hopkins, Pte. [supposedly] 447415, Labour Corps, is the same man as Thomas Jesse Hopkins  Cpl., 447414 Labour Corps, previously 3573 King's Royal Rifle Corps.

TJH had an embarkation date of 30/07/1915, Western Europe, as a rifleman in the 13th Bn., KRRC. & was discharged 15/2/1919.

 

I suspect they are two different individuals.

The chances of a partially deaf, and one-eyed coal miner being passed fit to join a Rifle Regiment is I think unlikely.

 

These are Your man, JTH's details as transcribed on Ancestry:

Name:	Jesse Thomas Hopkins
Gender:	Male
Rank:	Pte
Record Type:	Disability
Birth Date:	1893
Residence Place:	Treherbert
Military Service Region:	Wales, Wales
Military Country:	Wales
Discharge Date:	5 Feb 1919
Service Number:	447415
Corps, Regiment or Unit:	Labour Corps

Edited 24 May , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Between 1870 and 1905, there is only one birth of a TJH in England and Wales, in Winchcomb district Worcs/ Gloucs in the first quarter of 1894. There are no JTHs

There are 10 JHs (and 5 J*Hs).

 

Only a handful of Jesse Hopkins in the 1901 Census.

The only reasonable match is in fact JH the 7 yr old boy mentioned above, living at Winchcomb.

 

On Ancestry, someone has added a postem to his name stating it to be Thomas Jesse Hopkins, but not stating why this should be the case.

In 1911, TJH is still at Winchcomb, a general labourer.

 

In the 1939 Register, we only have :

Name:	Jesse T Hopkins
Gender:	Male
Marital Status:	Widowed
Birth Date:	16 Feb 1894
Residence Year:	1939
Address:	22 [Glynrhondda Street, Treorchy]
Residence Place:	Rhondda, Glamorganshire, Wales
Occupation:	Colliery Hewer Heavy Worker

 

 

Edited 24 May , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Marriage of a Jesse TH to a Margaret John:

Marriages Jun 1919   (>99%)
Hopkins	Jesse T	John	Pontypridd	11a	1542

 

But lots of Thomas JHs between 1911 and 1930, most in South Wales.

It seems as though TJH disappears after the Medal Rolls of November 1919 and JTH does not  appear before June 1919.

[GWF1967]

2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

 

The chances of a partially deaf, and one-eyed coal miner being passed fit to join a Rifle Regiment is I think unlikely.

 

I think family lore says military service started with two eyes and ears. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

4 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

I think family lore says military service started with two eyes and ears. 

Ah. Yes. Misread that post.

[snminc]

Many thanks to all who've taken the time to reply.

 

One final question could someone from the Labour Corps have been serving with a tunneling company?

 

 

 

[kenf48]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, snminc said:

One final question could someone from the Labour Corps have been serving with a tunneling company?

 

As Dai has said 3573 Hopkins landed in Boulogne on the 31 July 1915 with the main body of the 13th Battalion KRRC. (14-15 Star Roll)

 

His Labour Corps number suggests a transfer in December 1917.

 

Working parties were an integral part of service in F & F for all soldiers and it's possible he was attached to, or working with, a tunnelling company. 
The demand for labour was intense and always exceeded the numbers available, including where infantry battalions were used.
Trenches had to be extended, approaches consolidated, supplies brought up, spoil removed etc.  

 

Following the German Spring Offensive in March 1918  and the subsequent war of movement there was relatively little time, or requirement, for tunnelling and the Tunnelling Companies were employed on general RE duties, e.g. road building, consolidating and constructing trenches and so forth.  At this stage I'd suggest it's more likely he would have been working with them in this sort of role rather than their specialist duty, but in the absence of evidence your guess is as good as mine.