D.C.M. Mystery - Lieut. James Benson, 32 Battalion A.I.F.

[UKAIF]

The information provided by forum members above is very useful as it answers a query I pondered back in the late 1990s. Benson was one of very few (if not the only man) with a decoration listed on the panels at VC Corner and I too drew a blank back then. Interestingly, some of the 5th (Aus) Division citations for awards post-July 1916 did refer back to Gallipoli operations but certainly Benson did not get his at Fromelles and nor were posthumous award generally given bar a VC or occasional MiD.

[Guest]

Mate,

As a researcher into AIF records, mainly ALH. I see this from time to time.

Soldiers are told they were awarded or going to be awarded medals, but never get them.

They maybe recommened for an award but many times they are not given, or could be down graded or upgraded.

Also the story is told to families and they believe it was awarded when it was not.

So his wife may well have believed he was awarded such a medal, but offically he was not.

I ve seen this a few times, so I don't always believe they were trying to decieve only thye are mistaken.

I ve also seen them recorded in news papers with stories given by families when they were untrue.

I ve also seen a man who claimed a VC and other awards that his family believe awarded, when it was not.

So go by the offical record not family stories as the 1927 entry did.

I am sorry

S.B

[Bruce L]

8 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

As a researcher into AIF records, mainly ALH. I see this from time to time.

Soldiers are told they were awarded or going to be awarded medals, but never get them.

They maybe recommened for an award but many times they are not given, or could be down graded or upgraded.

Also the story is told to families and they believe it was awarded when it was not.

So his wife may well have believed he was awarded such a medal, but offically he was not.

I ve seen this a few times, so I don't always believe they were trying to decieve only thye are mistaken.

I ve also seen them recorded in news papers with stories given by families when they were untrue.

I ve also seen a man who claimed a VC and other awards that his family believe awarded, when it was not.

So go by the offical record not family stories as the 1927 entry did.

I am sorry

S.B

Hi Steve,

Over the years I've done a lot of research trying to get to the bottom of my great grandfather's supposed DCM. I've been through all the official channels and came finally to The Great War Forum as there are many clever people here who have some extraordinary research abilities. As I have always drawn a blank and have not seen one iota of evidence - I must agree that the award was never made.

I'm still intrigued to know as to how the post nominal DCM was engraved after his name on the panel at VC Corner cemetery in the first place? It must have been a clerical error of some sort. I would have thought that this was quite a rare occurrence, but I suppose mistakes did happen. Quite a bad mistake, as it has caused a lot of confusion over 100 years later.

Bruce

 

[Guest]

Bruce,

I can only follow one of the above conclussions, that they saw what the family wrote and they took that at face value?

Can I say that during a long forgotten war. and after a nasty little action, I was told I was to be granted some award.

A few days later the big man with his follows, arrived and I was amoung a number of blokes presented to him.

That was it, the last I heard of it.

I did later hear that our Army had a quota system, and we had missed out

I don;t know if true but who knows

I don't know if that is what happened to your relation but it sounds like it.

A DCM in the Boar war was as big as a VC, few were awarded in that war, so if he did get it there would be some record?

Cheers stay safe

S.B

[tankengine888]

Looking through his record(WW1)…

so far, his oath papers are mixed up with my great great grandfathers! What a coincidence.. this is what I picked up in it. Only mention of a DCM is mostly in the letters

the one with red writing has a name on it.. I don’t read cursive so yeah.

hope I helped.

[Fromelles]

I have conducted quite a bit of research on 2/Lieut James Benson (Jens Petter BENGTSON / BENGTSEN) as he and a relation of mine were both in 'A' Company, 32nd Battalion, both being killed in action (20 Jul 16) during the Battle of Fromelles.

Here is a photo of Benson, likely taken in Egypt, some time after being promoted to 2/Lieut, it looks to me he's wearing the DCM, QSA and KSA medal ribbon-bar.

148 Pte Jens Benson embarked with the 3rd (Queensland Mounted Infantry) Contingent. He arrived in South Africa on 2 April 1900 and departed for Australia on 9 May 1901 (13 months). An entitlement to the King's South Africa Medal required at least 18 months service in South Africa by 1 Jun 02, so I believe Benson's entitlement to the KSA medal is also unlikely.

As to the award of the DCM I concluded, at best, he believed he was entitled to the award and so wore it. The only member of the 3rd QMI to be awarded a DCM was 297 Bugler AE Forbes.

It's likely the CWGC Register used the information from the Roll of Honour circular provided by the soldier's NoK, in which Mrs Benson stated he had a DCM from the Boer War.

As everyone else has posted; there is just no evidence there was an award.

Dan

 

Edited 16 December , 2021 by Fromelles

[tankengine888]

9 hours ago, Fromelles said:

I have conducted quite a bit of research on 2/Lieut James Benson (Jens Petter BENGTSON / BENGTSEN) as he and a relation of mine were both in 'A' Company, 32nd Battalion, both being killed in action (20 Jul 16) during the Battle of Fromelles.

Here is a photo of Benson, likely taken in Egypt, some time after being promoted to 2/Lieut, it looks to me he's wearing the DCM, QSA and KSA medal ribbon-bar.

148 Pte Jens Benson embarked with the 3rd (Queensland Mounted Infantry) Contingent. He arrived in South Africa on 2 April 1900 and departed for Australia on 9 May 1901 (13 months). An entitlement to the King's South Africa Medal required at least 18 months service in South Africa by 1 Jun 02, so I believe Benson's entitlement to the KSA medal is also unlikely.

As to the award of the DCM I concluded, at best, he believed he was entitled to the award and so wore it. The only member of the 3rd QMI to be awarded a DCM was 297 Bugler AE Forbes.

It's likely the CWGC Register used the information from the Roll of Honour circular provided by the soldier's NoK, in which Mrs Benson stated he had a DCM from the Boer War.

As everyone else has posted; there is just no evidence there was an award.

Dan

 

Can't think of much. That first ribbon does not look like a DCM, Looks more like a different medal. I can't remember when medal is which but that first one is not a DCM to me. I see your research is extensive, and worth while. There is no way to prove he was awarded it unfortunately unless something surfaces I suppose.

[Bruce L]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for your interest and help in trying to uncover this mystery DCM. I have been down every avenue and rabbit hole for years in an attempt to get to the bottom of this and have always drawn a blank. I've also looked at the medal ribbons in the photo and also conclude it's not the DCM that's shown first. By the way, that's a good photo of him - I have the original which is on a postcard. The corner is missing where some family member cut it off to get the stamp! I suppose foreign stamps where quite a thing back then. My only concern with all this is how the post nominal DCM was carved into the sandstone against his name on the panel in VC Corner cemetery - also all the then Imperial War Graves Commission documentation said DCM. Just seems a bit strange that there was mention of it in family correspondence - and it was acknowledged and accepted by the Imperial War Graves Commission at the time. Would they have taken his wife's word? I don't think we will ever know. My personal feeling is there was no DCM.

Regards,

Bruce

[Fromelles]

11 hours ago, tankengine888 said:

That first ribbon does not look like a DCM, Looks more like a different medal. I can't remember when medal is which but that first one is not a DCM to me. 

8 hours ago, Bruce L said:

I've also looked at the medal ribbons in the photo and also conclude it's not the DCM that's shown first. 

Be aware that the orthochromatic film used can make colours appear very different than what you'd expect. Reds will appear very dark and blue very much lighter (a blue sky can appear white). I'm only going off of the division of the first ribbon being divided into three equal parts which is exactly the same as a DCM ribbon.

Benson's wife states her husband had been awarded the DCM, QSA, KSA, to me, that is what it looks he is wearing.

According to the guide on decorations: 'Australians Awarded' (Clive Johnson) the 3rd QMI were entitled to the following clasps for the QSA medal -

• Cape Colony
• Rhodesia
• Relief of Mafeking (D Sqn only)
• Orange Free State

These clasps are not an automatic entitlement, the individual still has to meet the qualifying conditions first. These entitlements are somewhat different to what is stated by Mrs Benson as being awarded to her husband.

As I alluded to previously, and thinking about it some more, Pte Jens Benson was not in South Africa for at least 18 months prior to 1 Jun 02, and so was not entitled to the KSA medal. Correspondence from his wife stated they had not received either the DCM and KSA medal, obviously due to there not being any entitlement.

Yet here's a photo 2/Lieut Benson wearing three medals ribbons.....

Dan

Edited 17 December , 2021 by Fromelles

[UKAIF]

I would not wish to doubt Benson's military service (and ultimately giving his life for the Empire) but it seems that the story that his medals were "stolen" during the war adds to the doubt about his entitlement; the claim of three years' service in SA also appears to be exaggerated. It would have been risky to claim to be a DCM winner as someone somewhere during his AIF service may have queried it (and a military offence?). I have come across an award of a Palestine MM being cancelled later so maybe he had been rcommended and it was not approved - or maybe he was a deceiving others???? Research a century later also uncovers things like having two wives and, of course, an alias which at the time these men may have safely assumed would never be discovered.

Edited 19 December , 2021 by UKAIF

[tankengine888]

12 hours ago, UKAIF said:

I would not wish to doubt Benson's military service (and ultimately giving his life for the Empire) but it seems that the story that his medals were "stolen" during the war adds to the doubt about his entitlement; the claim of three years' service in SA also appears to be exaggerated. It would have been risky to claim to be a DCM winner as someone somewhere during his AIF service may have queried it (and a military offence?). I have come across an award of a Palestine MM being cancelled later so maybe he had been rcommended and it was not approved - or maybe he was a deceiving others???? Research a century later also uncovers things like having two wives and, of course, an alias which at the time these men may have safely assumed would never be discovered.

Hello!
I think the 3 years is just a mixup, like saying "I served in South Africa" and then it is just thought it was 3 years, since I am pretty sure that was how long the (Second) Boer War was.
If you don't follow, I think it was just a small mistake.

(Before I continue, I am not an expert at this)
About the risky claim of a DCM, he might've "picked it up" during the war, maybe from a period pawn shop, just some thoughts, I am not an expert nor one to be talking due to lack of knowledge on the subject, but I guess it's worth a shot.

Well, nothing else to say.

[Guest]

Mate,

As stated I've seen this before in AIF records, that soldiers claim awards they have no entitlement to.

I could not remember where I've seen this, but I did find one other soldier

Check out the service records for 

McSWEENEY    John Joseph    222    Far/Sgt    01 LHR
See pages 13 and 14

where some one in the family either the man himself or a family member/s claim he had a DCM in the Boar War.

Again there is not much, but I have seen this before with other former soldiers who claim awards?

But your chasing a black dog here, trying to find a reason when there is none, or not to your liking?

Family stories can be hard to put to bed, but you have to suck it up, and see he had no entitlement to that award?

S.B

Edited 21 December , 2021 by stevebecker

[Fromelles]

On 20/12/2021 at 03:52, UKAIF said:

I would not wish to doubt Benson's military service (and ultimately giving his life for the Empire) but it seems that the story that his medals were "stolen" during the war adds to the doubt about his entitlement; the claim of three years' service in SA also appears to be exaggerated. It would have been risky to claim to be a DCM winner as someone somewhere during his AIF service may have queried it (and a military offence?). I have come across an award of a Palestine MM being cancelled later so maybe he had been rcommended and it was not approved - or maybe he was a deceiving others???? Research a century later also uncovers things like having two wives and, of course, an alias which at the time these men may have safely assumed would never be discovered.

I doubt the family of James Benson where trying to mislead anyone in saying he was entitled to the DCM and KSA medal. It's what they believed to be true as told to them by their husband and father. What were James Benson's reasons for stating he was awarded medals he wasn't entitled, we'll never know. 

As to the alias, I think it's most likely just the Anglicising of his name from its Swedish origin, a very common practice for those with foreign sounding names.

Yes, James Benson did have two wives, but his first wife died (1906) prior to his second marriage (1908), so nothing to see here. He was arrested in Adelaide on a charge of deserting the children of his first marriage, a charge that was later dropped.

Sometimes I think we believe these men were infallible. They were just as capable of being as flawed as we are today.

Dan

[tankengine888]

Just now, Fromelles said:

I doubt the family of James Benson where trying to mislead anyone in saying he was entitled to the DCM and KSA medal. It's what they believed to be true as told to them by their husband and father. What were James Benson's reasons for stating he was awarded medals he wasn't entitled, we'll never know. 

As to the alias, I think it's most likely just the Anglicising of his name from its Swedish origin, a very common practice for those with foreign sounding names.

Yes, James Benson did have two wives, but his first wife died (1906) prior to his second marriage (1908), so nothing to see here. He was arrested in Adelaide on a charge of deserting the children of his first marriage, a charge that was later dropped.

Sometimes I think we believe these men were infallible. They were just as capable of being as flawed as we are today.

Dan

Maybe just trying to show off "I served 3 years in the Veldt and got a D.C.M from Lord Roberts!" but I wouldn't know.

[Fromelles]

On 17/12/2021 at 14:39, Bruce L said:

By the way, that's a good photo of him - I have the original which is on a postcard. The corner is missing where some family member cut it off to get the stamp! I suppose foreign stamps where quite a thing back then.

Hi Bruce,

The photo I posted is also an original, however there is nothing written on the reverse. Would your photo happen to be dated?

Dan

[Bruce L]

17 hours ago, Fromelles said:

Hi Bruce,

The photo I posted is also an original, however there is nothing written on the reverse. Would your photo happen to be dated?

Dan

 

17 hours ago, Fromelles said:

Hi Bruce,

The photo I posted is also an original, however there is nothing written on the reverse. Would your photo happen to be dated?

Dan

Hi Dan,

The photo I have is in the form of a postcard - no writing on it, just blank. It must have had a stamp on it ready to post - as I mentioned previously, someone has cut that corner off! He was promoted to lieutenant in March 1916 whilst in Egypt so the postcard may have been made and sent from there or perhaps on early arrival in France. It would certainly be between March and  and his death in July 1916.

I was interested to read your previous post where you mentioned that he was arrested for deserting the children of his first marriage - I was totally unaware of this. He had two daughters to his first wife who you correctly state died in 1906 - my grandmother being one. He went to Adelaide from Brisbane to work for the tramways - remarried and had two more children, a boy and a girl. My grandmother and her sister were living together with the "new" family in Adelaide when he was killed at Fromelles in July 1916. Following his death, the stepmother returned my grandmother and her sister by ship back to Brisbane where they were taken in by their maternal grandfather. As times were tough then, the stepmother obviously had enough on her hands looking after her own two children, so sent the two stepdaughters back home to Brisbane from whence they had come.

There can't have been any animosity between the siblings as my grandmother stayed in close contact with her stepbrother Sam Benson for her entire life. Sam was a Lieutenant- Commander in the RAN during WW2 and was the skipper of HMAS KIAMA - he later became a Federal Member of Parliament. There's been suggestions made here that Lt. James Benson was probably a bigamist, shyster, name changer, big noter etc. Knowing this maternal side of my family, I totally reject this as they were/are the complete opposite of this. I note that you have come to his defence on that score, so thank you! He served with the Queensland Mounted Infantry in the Boer War and later in the AIF where he was killed at Fromelles - as confirmed  in the Official History, "Lieutenant J. Benson killed at the objective". He obviously stood up to be counted at the time of his testing - knowing on that fateful afternoon that he and others were probably going to their certain death.

I was fortunate as Lt. Benson's great grandson to attend the dedication of his grave and headstone at Pheasant Wood Cemetery on 19 July 2016 on the centenary of the battle. No DCM on the new headstone, but it was there on the sandstone panel at VC Corner Cemetery from the early 1920's. I suppose we will never know the true story. I had seven members of my family serve in the First AIF - it has given me such a deep affection for both the AIF and France that I now have a small home on the Somme where I have been spending up to six months of the year from 2016 until Covid put a stop to it in early 2020. I have my ticket booked for mid March 2022 and can't wait to get back to be amongst our blokes who didn't get home.

Kind regards,

Bruce

[Fromelles]

Hi Bruce,

At the time I remember thinking whatever happened to James' children left in Queensland, so it's good to hear that the daughters were reunited with their father, and that they remained in contact with their step-mother and half-siblings after their return to Brisbane.

My relation too was identified and is now buried in Pheasant Wood Cemetery. I wasn't fortunate enough to attend the ceremony, however my mother and her cousin were able to attend so it was nice to think some of the family were there. 

I feel certain the details contained within the CWGC Cemetery Registers were taken directly from the Roll of Honour circulars as provided by the next-of-kin. This is backed up by the fact that those families who didn't return the circulars also have minimal information in the cemetery registers. I believe the fact that James' wife stated that he was awarded a DCM is all it took for the CWGC to inscribe it against his name at VC Corner. I doubt the authorities were in any position to conducted checks confirming what was being stated on the Roll of Honour circulars.

Finally, just to correct an omission of mine on a previous post above, there were in fact four soldiers of the 3rd QMI who were awarded the DCM -

• 4 QMS William Leckey Ferguson Wright
• 95 Cpl Norman Alexander Davidson
• 193 Bugler Herbert William Keogh
• 297 Bugler Arthur Edward Forbes

Dan

[Bruce L]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for your reply and update on the DCM winners from 3rd QMI. I think your explanation that James' wife statement of a DCM being awarded on that Roll of Honour circular card is the most logical. You could imagine the mammoth task of work that was ahead of the then Imperial War Graves Commission in the early 1920's. There was probably no time to check records and these claims were most likely taken of face value.

I have the 32nd Battalion history "Second to None" by Roger Freeman - no doubt you are aware of it. I went on a RSL tour of the Western Front with Roger in 1991 and kept in contact with him - he passed away a few years ago. The book is full of photographs - three of my great grandfather, two of which I'd never seen before. No doubt your relation is in there as well. If you'd like to give his name, I'll pay him a visit when I'm at Fromelles in the new year.

Seasons Greetings,

Bruce

[Fromelles]

Hi Bruce,

The family would appreciate it very much if you could take the time to visit his grave.

Allan Irving - Plot I, Row E, Grave No 4

I provided the photo of Allan for 'Second to None', Roger's books on both the 50th and 32nd Battalions are highly recommended, a treasure trove of photographs.  

The interesting thing about James' discovery in the Pheasant Wood pits is that the Bavarians didn't remove his identity disc and return it to England (via the Red Cross). Except for one other, to date, every other member of the 32nd Battalion recovered from the Pheasant Wood pits was initially identified by the Bavarians prior to burial. It shows James was killed close to or within the German lines (contradicting some witness statements) and that his identity disc was no longer on his body. 

A very merry Christmas to you and yours, and all the best for the New Year.

Dan

[Bruce L]

Hi again Dan,

Just found Allan's photo in "Second to None" - rather sobering to look at all those young faces who were killed in that fateful attack of 19/20 July,1916. Imagine attacking in what was still broad daylight late that afternoon - into the face of German machine guns and artillery. What were the planners thinking? We arrive in France on 19 March, so will spend sometime getting our place back into shape after a two+ years absence. Hopefully everything hasn't gone mouldy after two winters.

For the last couple of years, the Fromelles community has been conducting their own Anzac Day, usually on the 24th so as not to clash with the big service at Villers Brettoneux. We've been to two there and much prefer it to the large crowds and associated security measures in place at VB. We will head up there for this Anzac Day and will be quite honoured to visit Allan's grave for you.

I've been working as a battlefield guide for Sacred Ground Tours since 2016. We take small group tours of maximum 8 people and Fromelles is on one of our tours that heads up to Belgium. We know the exact location where both 31 and 32 Bns began the attack from. My boss (an ex Sydneysider) and myself called in there one day after taking two ladies to Lille airport. The field had just been ploughed and we were amazed at the amount of ordnance and artefacts that it uncovered - most poignant were some small chess pieces that a soldier must have carried in the form of a miniature chess set. I have one in my display cabinet at home here on the Sunshine Coast.

As you have a great interest in the 32 Bn, I wonder if you ever picked up that my great-grandfather Lt. James Benson had the Regimental No 1 in the battalion. He must have been camped outside on the footpath waiting for the recruitment office to open!  He went in as a Sergeant obviously due to his Boer War service, but lost the Reg. No.1 on being commissioned. A relative of mine was quite indignant that the number 1 was not included on his new headstone at Pheasant Wood Cemetery. He didn't want to accept the fact that officers did not have regimental numbers and carried on quite a bit about it! All to no avail of course.

I also have Roger's book on the 50th, "Hurcombe's Hungry Half Hundred" (what a title!). I take my tour groups to Bullecourt - on the way we stop at Noreuil where the 50th were badly mauled as the came down into the village. The CWGC Cemetery there is full of 50th men. We also visit the spot where Jorgen Jensen of the 50th won his VC at Noreuil. The 32nd and 50th were primarily (though not entirely) made up of South Australians - I'm always taken by the large number of German surnames in the ranks of both battalions. Testament to large number of German immigrants to SA in the 1800's. I wonder what the Germans made of this when they encountered AIF casualties and POWs with German names?

Regards,

Bruce

 

[Fromelles]

Hi Bruce,

Yes, I'm aware of James' old regimental number. It wasn't so much a case of him camping outside the recruiting office, but the fact he was appointed CSM prior to the regimental numbers being allocated. It was quite common for the senior NCOs to be given the first numbers within their respective company. As James was in 'A' Company he was given the first number on issue (#1) and  'A' Company's CQMS was allocated #2. Regimental numbers were issued from mid October 1915, so well after recruiting for the Battalion had commenced in late August 1915, of which most (if not all) men were drafted directly across from the Depot Battalions.

• 'B' Company issued #401 and #402 to the CSM and CQMS respectively
• 'C' Company issued #851 and #852 to the CSM and CQMS respectively
• 'D' Company issued #1183 and #1184 to the CSM and CQMS respectively

The RSM (#272 RJ George [actual name: G Goff)) wasn't selected till after the above appointments had been made.

Once James was commissioned his regimental number was no longer valid, so it quite correctly would not be recorded on his headstone.

Dan

Edited 30 December , 2021 by Fromelles