No. 2 General Hospital and S.S. Egypt

[66Vespa]

Good evening,

 

The attached image file is a page from an Admission and Discharge Book from No. 2 General Hospital at Havre.  British casualties from the Battle of the Somme were brought to the hospital on July 4th, 1916.  On July 5th, 1916, the men were embarked upon the hospital ship S.S. Egypt and transferred to England.  Does anyone know where the S.S. Egypt docked to disembark the wounded men, and to which hospital(s) were they taken?  Any information, specific or general, will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Richard.  

 

[TEW]

No 'Egypt' diary listed on TNA for 1916. The 'Havre' base diary will probably mention it leaving but not so sure it'll give a destination. It may give a total number embarked.

 

Other than checking other HS diaries to identify if Havre shiops generally went to EG.  Folkstone or Dover not sure how you'd proceed.

 

Once disembarked a train for X would be arranged and the train filled up. Not sure how the logistics worked in terms of knowing where the available beds were but off loading groups at each station until arriving at X would spread the men out along the route.

 

If you searched find my past for all the men you should pick up some of the names and get a handful of hospital names. Or, as a bonus a sick/wounded admission list with several of the men on one list.

TEW

[66Vespa]

Good evening TEW,

 

Thanks for your research and advice.  Your logic regarding the off-loading of groups of men at each station along the route makes perfect sense.  I was assuming that all wounded went to a specific hospital.  I will look into researching records for other Havre hospital ships.  Maybe I'll get lucky.

Thanks again.

 

Regards.

 

R. 

[TEW]

There are what could be no more than stories of men being asked where they wanted to go. All the wounded would be loaded onto an awaiting train bound for a pre-arranged destination, virtually no-one going where they wanted!

 

Perhaps someone's idea of humour.

 

If you do want to follow the research suggested be aware those lists can contain spelling and number errors and sometimes even battalion.

 

I'd want to work through the list checking medal details first to spot any list errors and glean other service numbers as service/pension records for EG. 1424 Rogerson could be indexed under another number.

 

Some no doubt were discharged with SWB due to their July 1916. Others returned to the same or a new infantry unit and others possibly to Labour Corps.

 

I see a few neck or head injuries which could have ended in a fatality.

 

TEW

[66Vespa]

Good evening TEW,

 

Thank you for your follow-up email.

 

My great-uncle, G/1084 Lewis Novell, then a corporal with B Company, 6th Battalion, The Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment, sustained a gun shot wound to the back during an attack on the village of Ovillers-la-Boiselle in the wee small hours of July 3rd, 1916.  Following the attack, he was evacuated to No. 2 General Hospital at Havre for treatment and stabilization, and thence transferred, via the converted hospital ship S.S. Egypt to a hospital in England.  His wounding was reported in 'The Times' and, upon his release from hospital, he was allowed leave to visit his family, during which time he received a 'wound stripe, and posed for a photograph wearing it on his uniform.  Notwithstanding the general chaos of the war, the degree to which logistical protocols and record keeping have been maintained every step of the way is truly amazing to me.  The postcard addressed to 'B' Company, the battalion War Diary account of the attack, the hospital Admission and Discharge Book entry, the newspaper notification, the family oral history of his brief visit, and the photograph, combined to make the sleuthing of this event easy.  I will probably spend a little time researching the S.S. Egypt's port of disembarkation, but I think finding the receiving hospital may prove too much.

 

This research we do of the aggregated history sometimes presents us with a poignant sidebar.  Lewis Novell, whilst possibly aware that the 7th Battalion, The Queen's (RWS) Regiment were in the Somme theater, could not have known, during his wounding at Ovillers and subsequent evacuation, that less than three miles away, in front of the village of Mametz, his cousin, G/1807 Private George Novell already lay dead, a casualty of the battle's first day.

 

I hope you don't mind, but I researched the men listed in your remembrance block.  I was struck that they were all casualties in the spring of 1917.  As fate would have it, I join you in that dolorous season.  Upon completion of his rehabilitation, Lewis Novell returned to active duty in France, albeit now with the 8th Battalion, the Queen's (RWS) Regiment.  He was killed in action on March 25th, 1917, at the Calonne defenses, near Loos.

Thanks again for your responses.

Regards.

R.  

 

[TEW]

The men in my remembrance block were the early casualties with my Grandfather's battalion. Likely that some were men in B Company. Being the CO of B. Coy. he took notes regarding their deaths, notes I now have.

 

For your research, statistically for the 30 men on your list you should be able to find ~12 service files. With luck hospitals should be noted. Question is, does a pattern emerge? Are they spread around hospitals in EG. The Midlands, London, etc?

 

 A 'Sick & Wounded' list find would be a bonus.

 

Using #1424 Rogerson as an example, he has two other numbers on his MIC. Therefore, Ancestry & FMP may have indexed his possible service or pension file under any one of those numbers or all three. Number prefixes EG. 3/281 need caution as it could be Indexed with or without.

 

So, for each of 30 men you could end up doing multiple searches, having checked the surname is spelled correctly.

 

If, at the end you find men in Exeter, Liverpool, London, and Edinburgh for July 1916 it's then difficult to establish a likely hospital for Lewis Novell.

TEW

[66Vespa]

Good evening TEW,

 

Thanks for your continued advice.  It is much appreciated.

 

I revisited the 2nd General Hospital Admission and Discharge Book, which contains 28 pages worth of casualties that were brought to the hospital on July 4th, 1916.  The page I attached to my original post was one of thirteen an a half pages listing wounded men to be embarked upon the S.S. Egypt.  A total of 401 men.  The men listed in the first few pages of the book were embarked upon the hospital ship Lanfranc.  The men listed in the last few pages of the book were embarked upon the hospital ship Maheno.  So, with 400+ men to research, my odds of finding a pattern for hospitalization has risen dramatically.

 

Also, my research into the Lanfranc and Maheno reveals that their regular passage at the time of the Somme offensive was between Havre and Southampton.  I could not find any more information regarding at which port the S.S. Egypt disembarked her wounded, but I would be inclined to believe that she also docked at Southampton.  It makes sense that the arrangements for the rail transport and the management of the availability of beds at hospitals along the train's route, would be best served if all hospital ships from Havre docked at Southampton.  I have not done any research on this, but I imagine that all hospital ships from Calais, for example, always docked at the same port,  Dover perhaps.  I'll look into it further.

 

Again, thank you for staying with this.  I appreciate your advice.

 

Regards.

 

R.    

[Michelle Young]

I seem to recall reading many years ago in the book Roses of NoMans Land  that when unloading at Southampton, the most serious cases went to the closest hospital to the docks, and the less serious to hospitals a bit further along. Although in the chaos following 1st July when medical services were swamped with wounded, that might have gone by the by and cases were accommodated wherever there was space, and probably where there wasn't.