Most incredible war in the air story you’ve heard

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Just curious… what is the strangest, or most incredible WW1 war in the air story you have ever heard?

Gary

[Adrian Roberts]

WE Johns, author of the Biggles books, told of a story that he alleged was true, of an RE8 that made a perfect landing at its home base with both the crew dead from bullet wounds. He also said that Boelcke saw a British plane flying along with no crew that he could see; he emptied his magazine at it and it continued to fly along with no discernable effect.

Adrian

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Adrian --

Now those two stories send a chill up my spine. Thanks.

Gary

[Guest lilydalelil]

The story of how Lt McNamara won the 1st and only VC of the AFC

[Guest Gary Davidson]

lilydalelil --

I just googled Lt. McNamara and read his story. Yep. That's another incredible story.

Gary

[Dolphin]

Gary

I think that Adrian is referring to RE 8 A3816, of No 3 Sqn AFC, that landed on 17 December 1917 after the crew (Lt J L Sandy and Sgt H F Hughes) had been killed in the action that saw Albatros D.Va 5390/17 (Ltn Clauss of Jasta 29) captured. Both Australians were killed by the same bullet, and the RE 8 flew on in ever-widening left hand circles until it ran out of fuel and crashed some 50 miles from the combat.

Another incredible story would have to be the almost successful attempt by the German Naval Zeppelin LZ59 to fly from Bulgaria to re-supply Colonel von Lettow-Vorbeck's troops in German East Africa (today's Tanzania). The thought of a Zeppelin flying over the Nile is quite amazing!

Cheers

Gareth

[andigger]

I have absolutely no way of proving this, but I had heard that early in the war when the mystic of combat and thrill of flying had not been over taken by the realities of war that the upper classes hired a pilot, found their swords, and loaded their revolvers to take to the sky. Apparently their was an image that dog fights were going to be fought by the upper classes almost as if it were a duel.

Andy

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Those are all great stories.

Gareth, can you give a little more of the story behind the German Naval Zeppelin LZ59?

[Adrian Roberts]

Gary

On 21-25 November 1917 the "Afrika-Zeppelin" L59 flew 6757 km in 95 hours from Bulgaria to German East Africa and back to, as Gareth says, resupply the German troops there. When the L59 was nearly at its destination the British sent a false radio message saying that the German force had surrendered, so the crew turned round and flew home. Not really cricket on our part! - but nice if all wars could be solved like that.

If you can read German, try this link: http://www.pilotundluftschiff.de/Afrikafahrt.htm

Gareth: She was L59 i.e Naval Zeppelin 59, not LZ59. Her builder's number was LZ104. The Army used the builder's number, or later the builder's number plus 30.

Andy

the upper classes hired a pilot, found their swords, and loaded their revolvers to take to the sky.

Not sure about swords but certainly revolvers. Richard Bell-Davies RNAS (later Vice Admiral, and a VC recipient) told of an occasion in about Oct 1914 when he was flying with a Marine officer Lt Collett as observer, and chased and caught up with a German machine. Collett just sat there, and Bell-Davies yelled "Why don't you shoot, you bloody fool?" Collett shouted back "I haven't got a bloody gun, you ass"!

Adrian

[Guest Gary Davidson]

Adrian --

Thanks for that!

Unfortunately I can't read German. Can you recommend possibly a book that tells the whole story of the L59? It sounds like a truly amazing saga.

Gary

[MikB]

Wasn't there a case of an SE5 pilot who got into a situation where he was hanging from the Lewis gun drum with his plane flying inverted? I seem to remember he survived, but how he got into that position and out of it again I can't remember. I suppose it could well have been a fictitious comic story, but I think it was presented as true.

Regards,

MikB

[Paul Hederer]

Wish I could remember the details, but I can't....

Story of Brisfit crew who landed their aircraft by crawling out on the wing after they had caught on fire and flying from there.

Perhaps someone can remember the details??

Paul

[Jonathan Saunders]

Not quite war in the air but how history may have been different ...

Having secured his dream transfer to the RFC Jimmy McCudden reported for duty at Farnborough on 9th May 1913. He was told to familiarise himself with an out of service Caudron trainer aircraft. Intermittently during the day Jimmy practised swinging the propeller however when he returned to do this again at the end of the day, to his dismay the aircraft sprung into life and crashed into the Station Commander’s car. Unbeknown to Jimmy someone else had ventured into the cockpit and left the engine switched on with the throttle open. In the event Jimmy was fortunate to get away with seven days in cells and 14 days without pay. It was generally believed that his brother, Bill, rising reputation in the RFC was enough for Jimmy to be given another chance.

Little could anyone who witnessed or had a small part in that event could have imagined that within five years 2AM J McCudden's name would become one of the most celebrated in the Air Service. I cant remember who the CO was but he met with McCudden in early 1918 I think by which time Jimmy was Britain's leading Air Ace, and chided Jimmy over this and how he was nearly dismissed back to the Royal Engineers in disgrace.

[J T Gray]

Wasn't there a case of an SE5 pilot who got into a situation where he was hanging from the Lewis gun drum with his plane flying inverted? I seem to remember he survived, but how he got into that position and out of it again I can't remember. I suppose it could well have been a fictitious comic story, but I think it was presented as true.

Regards,

MikB

I've heard this one too - if it is fiction, it has circulated well.

My favourite is the Essex schoolkids version of how Leefe-Robinson escaped when shot down - greased his bum and slid down a searchlight!

Adrian

[T8HANTS]

Hi

In a video I have in my collection, a pilot of the RFC tells that as he completed a successful attack on a Zep. He saw a crew member climb out of a hatch on the top of the beast, stand to attantion, salute him as he flew over it, and then the doomed man jumped over the side, as he was sans parachute. Well thats the story!

[Bob H]

[Wasn't there a case of an SE5 pilot who got into a situation where he was hanging from the Lewis gun drum with his plane flying inverted? I seem to remember he survived, but how he got into that position and out of it again I can't remember.]

This was Louis Strange in a Martinsyde scout.

See this site:

http://www.leachintl.com/heritage/heritage-2-99.html

Ending the war with DSO MM DFC, he went on to win a bar to his DFC in WWII

Regards

Bob

[Dolphin]

Gary

You might try to find a copy of The Zeppelin in Combat by Douglas Robinson [iSBN 0 85429 130 X]. This excellent work should tell you all you need to know about the expedition to Africa.

Adrian

Thanks for the correction.

Regards

Gareth

[J T Gray]

This was Louis Strange in a Martinsyde scout.

See this site:

http://www.leachintl.com/heritage/heritage-2-99.html

Ending the war with DSO MM DFC, he went on to win a bar to his DFC in WWII

My God, I wouldn't have wanted to get back in a plane ever again after that!

Reminds me of Chris Staniland Smith (I think) who baled out of the Fairey Torpedo-Spotter Reconnaisance prototype (later to become the Swordfish) TWICE in one flight!

I forget the details - I think he baled out against the g in an irrecoverable spin, and the g shoved him into the rear cockpit from which he had to climb out a second time!

OK not WW1 but some tale...

Adrian

[MikB]

This was Louis Strange in a Martinsyde scout.

Ah, thanks. Thought it was an SE5 'cause of the top-wing Lewis gun - I'd thought the only other British planes with this armament were home-defence Avro 504s and RNAS Camels.

Regards,

MikB

[Guest lilydalelil]

Gary.

Don't know how detailed an account Of McNamara's VC you saw, but I have just happened on a good yarn at the local library.

It appears that his problems started by using artlillery shells instead of bombs. 1 exploded, damaging him & his plane. He passed out in the cockpit and the permanent leg-injury was caused by an extremely hot hotwater bottle as he lay unconcious in hospital. Talk about friendly fire!

After reading that story, ones mind wanders to scenes of dog-tired Errol Flynn & David Niven a few yards ahead of the cavalry. Errol 'flying' while David sat helplessly in the observor's 'space'.

Must brush-up on film rights etc

Lil

[J T Gray]

Ah, Dawn Patrol!

David Niven's character - so said DN in his book - had an "accident" based on one that had happened to a pilot named Pope. He had rushed to his plane early one morning still in his pyjamas and been shot down - saved from certain death by falling into a pond. He then returned to a squadron grieving his loss, clutching an armful of champagne bottles and still wearing his jim-jams!

And during WW2 he ran into a Group Captain Pope who said to him "Ah, that chappy you played in "Dawn Patrol". That was me - and I still have the pyjamas!"

Any comments on it's veracity?

Adrian

[Dolphin]

Adrian

2Lt Sydney Leo Gregory Pope, from Dublin, was flying SE 5a B519 [previously flown by Capt J T B McCudden in No 56 Sqn] of No 60 Sqn RFC on 18 November 1917; he was wounded when shot down during a combat with a DFW two-seater. His aircraft crashed into a water filled crater near St Julien, from where it was recovered and then re-built as F5611 before being allocated to No 56 Sqn RAF on 24 October 1918.

2Lt Pope was credited with 6 victories at the time of his wound and was awarded the MC as well later being promoted to Lieutenant. He remained in the RAF after the War and reached the rank of Group Captain during the Second World War, having commanded RAF Debden as a Wing Commander in 1939.

I'd say that there's a fair chance that he's your man.

Regards

Gareth

[Bob H]

I found this amusing follow up to the incident I mentioned earlier:

“He afterwards kept very quiet about the incident. The German airmen, unfortunately for them, did not. They claimed a victory over a British machine, which had gone down in a spin after the pilot was thrown out; but when a search revealed no wreckage, they found no one would believe their story. As they were very reliable men – the same pair who had bombed Strange’s airfield after he had machine-gunned theirs – this was particularly galling for them, and unusually amusing for the others.”

Bob

[Dolphin]

This was Louis Strange in a Martinsyde scout.

Lt Col* Louis Strange's biography is Flying Rebel - the story of Louis Strange, by Peter Hearn; ISBN 0 11 290500 5. It's a good, and readable, account of his life and achievements.

* = his 1914-1919 rank.

Gareth

[MartinWills]

I recently read an account (sadly I forget where) relating the tale of an observer who was thrown out of the aircraft when his pilot went into a very steep dive. As the aircraft eventually levelled out the fortunate observer landed on the fuselage close to his seat and managed to climb back in again.