Does anyone know who, when or where in these photos?

[LancastrianBlue]

@travers61 has suggested I repeat this post in this forum in case anyone can shed some light.

 

These two photos are from memorylane.co.uk and are both from the 1910s in Hull, but there is no indication where the photo was taken nor are there any names of those pictured. Could it have been taken at Hedon racecourse where the 1st Hull Heavy Battery undertook initial training, or is it much later than that? Any info would be appreciated.

 

 

 

@travers61 has offered this: Photo 1 shows men of a Fusilier Regiment. I am not aware of a Fusilier Regiment with pre war affiliations to Hull or Yorkshire, but of course they could have just been a battalion stationed there in wartime.  Geographically the nearest would be the Northumberland Fusiliers. They wear the p1914 leather belts, which I usually associate with the Kitchener or New Army Recruits during their time in the UK. 

Hoping others will confirm.

 

Photo 2. If its a local unit to Hull, the cap badge could be the East Yorkshire Regiment, the cities local infantry regiment. Maybe taken later in the war as webbing belts became more available. Certainly not the Royal Artillery badge.

 

I have added this: By way of what could be a coincidence, my Grandfather (who lived in Hull) joined the East Yorkshire Regiment in 1916, before being transferred to the Northumberland Fusiliers and then to the Middlesex Regiment. It's a pity that no names are attached to the photos, but it would be an incredible stroke of fortune if my Grandfather was in either of them. I'll study them very closely again (probably with a magnifying glass!). You never know.

[Grovetown]

The top photo was taken no earlier than the autumn of 1914, owing to the presence of the 1914 pattern leather belts and the Simplified type of service dress jacket.

 

They are fusiliers, and the Northumberlands did have quite broad flames to the their bombs - so could be - but not uniquely. Hard to tell more from the resolution.

 

The lower photo looks like East Yorks, which fits for Hull. I can see slip on shoulder titles, meaning the photo was taken no earlier than late 1915.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

 

 

Edited 28 March , 2021 by Grovetown

[EDWARD1]

17th (S) NF raised in Hull by North Eastern Railways Sept 1914

Edited 28 March , 2021 by EDWARD1

[LancastrianBlue]

Thanks, chaps. Appreciate the replies.

[FROGSMILE]

I agree with the previous posters.  The first photo shows Northumberland Fusiliers and the identity suggested by EDWARD1 seems likely.  The second photo is undoubtedly East Yorkshire Regiment, who had a strong association with Hull, including a war raised Pals Battalion of Kitcheners New Army dubbed the ‘Hull Commercials’ (10th Service Battalion).

Edited 28 March , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[LancastrianBlue]

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I agree with the previous posters.  The first photo shows Northumberland Fusiliers and the identity suggested by EDWARD1 seems likely.  The second photo is undoubtedly East Yorkshire Regiment, who had a strong association with Hull, including a war raised Pals Battalion of Kitcheners New Army dubbed the ‘Hull Commercials’ (10th Service Battalion).

Thanks for confirming that. I suppose there is an outside chance my Grandfather is included even though we have no idea exactly when the photo was taken.

[FROGSMILE]

13 minutes ago, LancastrianBlue said:

Thanks for confirming that. I suppose there is an outside chance my Grandfather is included even though we have no idea exactly when the photo was taken.

The 17th Bn NF mentioned by EDWARD1 were raised at Hull and no other NF battalion can be traced there, so I think it’s safe to assume it’s them.  The East York’s is much more difficult, as the following battalions had been raised/based at, or near there:

3rd (Reserve)

1/4th TF

5th Cyclist 

2/4th

3/4th

10th

11th

12th

13th

2nd (Home Service) Garrison Bn

 

Edited 28 March , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[LancastrianBlue]

That's pretty conclusive then. I wonder what the chances are of finding someone with personal knowledge of the names of those in the photo.

 

Again, thanks so much for your input. I know so little of the Great War, everything that's passed on is new knowledge for me.

[PhilB]

The chap sitting next to the left hand sergeant in photo 1 has a black second button indicating a relative killed. I’m not sure when this custom started.

[LancastrianBlue]

8 minutes ago, PhilB said:

The chap sitting next to the left hand sergeant in photo 1 has a black second button indicating a relative killed. I’m not sure when this custom started.

I'd never heard of that. What a good spot.

[PhilB]

Photo 1, fellow sitting on floor, 3rd from right - is he coloured? (handsome chap!)

Edited 28 March , 2021 by PhilB

[LancastrianBlue]

3 hours ago, PhilB said:

Photo 1, fellow sitting on floor, 3rd from right - is he coloured? (handsome chap!)

Possibly. The chap far right front row could be ethnic minority as well. I don't recall many non-whites living in Hull (Mum and Dad's home City) when we visited there in the 50s and 60s. Certainly a fair few in the mid-70s when I went to live there, and certainly many more by the time I left in the mid-90s, but was it uncommon in the early 20th Century? I honestly have no idea.

[FROGSMILE]

34 minutes ago, LancastrianBlue said:

Possibly. The chap far right front row could be ethnic minority as well. I don't recall many non-whites living in Hull (Mum and Dad's home City) when we visited there in the 50s and 60s. Certainly a fair few in the mid-70s when I went to live there, and certainly many more by the time I left in the mid-90s, but was it uncommon in the early 20th Century? I honestly have no idea.

There were definitely some who had settled there via the seamen from the port facility, although nothing like in the numbers that have arrived subsequently.

Edited 28 March , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Mk VII]

The rifles appear to be P-14s.