Grandfather Joseph Skelton

[Debbie]

I've just started looking into my grandfather's history. He sadly died from TB in 1925 aged 27 leaving my father aged 2 and a widow. As far as I know he served in A15 Battery 15 Brigade 5 Division of the Royal Artillery sometime around 1916 to 1921. Any tips on furthering my search would be much appreciated ☺️

[jonbem]

Hi and welcome

First check out The Long, Long Trail – Researching soldiers of the British Army in the Great War of 1914-1919

(tab at top of forum page)

then ask away no matter how stupid it may seem

regards

Jon

[Debbie]

Thank you very much 😊

[PRC]

48 minutes ago, Debbie said:

he served in A15 Battery 15 Brigade 5 Division of the Royal Artillery sometime around 1916 to 1921.

 

Hi and welcome to the forum

 

If he stayed in the Army post 1920 then his service record will still be held by the Ministry of Defence. You can order a copy, (it costs) and forum members have recently been reporting a wait of a year, but it is a possibility!

 

Process for applying is set out here https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

Never tried it myself, but I've seen comments on the forum that if the serviceperson concerned would be over over 110 they don't insist on proof of death

 

I think the unit you are referring to is A15 Battery, 15 Brigade, (or XV Brigade), Royal Field Artillery. They were part of the Artillery Component of the 5th Division  - see the make up of that Division on our parent site https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/5th-division/

It includes a brief history of what major actions they were involved in.

 

The unit itself had been overseas since August 1914 so he must have been part of a later draft of replacements, having done his training in the UK with other units. Their War Diary from August 1914 to November 1917 can currently be downloaded for free from the National Archive. You just need to sign in with your account, and if you don't have one, even that can be set up as part of placing your first order. (No financial details required).  This should be the one you need https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352197

It's very unlikely to mention him by name, but will give a feel for where they were and what they were up to.

 

Unfortunately War Diaries for units serving in Italy have not been digitised and can only be seen at the National Archive.

 

In 1920 the British Army assigned a unique service number to every man serving. For the first time a man would have the same number regardless of which unit he went on to serve with. To get things started the number block allocated to men serving with the Royal Field Artillery and the Royal Horse Artillery ran from 721001 to 1396000

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/new-british-army-numbers-issued-in-1920/

 

So if you have a service number for your grandfather in that range then that is what his records at the MoD will be under.

 

To help you a bit more can you let us know any service numbers you have for him, and what was the source of the unit iinformation.

 

Thanks,

Peter

[Matlock1418]

Hi Debbie,

Welcome to GWF.

You have certainly given us quite a lot of information - if you have it, off medals perhaps, can you help with his particularly useful Regimental/Service Number? [as PRC has just suggested as I typed] Would normally open many a locked door.

Might help for post-war service & records held perhaps by the MoD [as he has also suggested!]

If you know where he lived in 1918 and/or 1919 the Absent Voters Lists might show him as absent and perhaps provide a number.

Alternatively, or in addition, as he died of TB, which was disease rife amongst troops, it is possible that he, or his widow, might have claimed a pension so a search of the Western Front / Fold3 pension card records could perhaps assist find details that way - Can you help us with his widow/your GM's forename(s).

Good luck.

:-) M

Edited 18 March , 2021 by Matlock1418

[Debbie]

I'm so grateful for the links and help here so far. A15 Battery is correct, Joseph Herbert Skelton 951400. He enlisted in Nov 1915 until Dec 1918. I've found a medical record for him in National Archives where he was hospitalized with scabies but it can only be viewed in person, it appears they misspelt the surname as Skilton. I've also found a medal certificate for his father Walter. What I'm really trying to locate is Josephs Service Medal or evidence of it. I have a copy of a letter he sent trying to locate it which I'll try and attach. At the time of writing it appears he hadn't actually received it. Sadly because he died when my father was 2 and my father has now also passed there is very limited information. Any help gratefully received 😊

[Debbie]

13 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Hi Debbie,

Welcome to GWF.

You have certainly given us quite a lot of information - if you have it, off medals perhaps, can you help with his particularly useful Regimental/Service Number? [as PRC has just suggested as I typed] Would normally open many a locked door.

Might help for post-war service & records held perhaps by the MoD [as he has also suggested!]

If you know where he lived in 1918 and/or 1919 the Absent Voters Lists might show him as absent and perhaps provide a number.

Alternatively, or in addition, as he died of TB, which was disease rife amongst troops, it is possible that he, or his widow, might have claimed a pension so a search of the Western Front / Fold3 pension card records could perhaps assist find details that way - Can you help us with his widow/your GM's forename(s).

Good luck.

:-) M

Hi, thanks so much for taking an interest in my Grandfather. His wife was Ada May Cooper. Josephs Service number was 951400. I note from records his father Walter appears to have the same number is this usual?

[jonbem]

If you subscribe to Ancestry there are these HERE Medal Roll

Name:	Walter J M.M. Skelton
Military Year:	1914-1920
Rank:	Driver
Unit:	Royal Field Artillery. Territorial Force
Company:	WO 329
Regiment or Corps:	Royal Field Artillery
Regiment Number:	951400
Medal Awarded:	British War Medal and Victory Medal

 

HERE Military Medal Roll

Name:	Walter Joseph Skelton
Regimental Number:	951400
Regiment:	Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery
Battalion:	A/15 Brigade
Rank:	DVR
Medals:	Military Medal

[jonbem]

and HERE the MIC

[jonbem]

HERE is the Gazette entry for the MM

16 up from bottom right

the header is on page 1378 if you scroll back

His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the award of the Military Medal for bravery in the Field to the undermentioned Non-Commissioned Officers and Men: —

[jonbem]

40 minutes ago, Debbie said:

Joseph Herbert Skelton

There is THIS MIC for Joseph H Skelton on Ancestry

Name:	Joseph H Skelton
Regiment or Corps:	Army Service Corps
Regimental Number:	M-281510

Edited 19 March , 2021 by jonbem

[Debbie]

5 minutes ago, jonbem said:

HERE is the Gazette entry for the MM

16 up from bottom right

the header is on page 1378 if you scroll back

His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the award of the Military Medal for bravery in the Field to the undermentioned Non-Commissioned Officers and Men: —

This is amazing thank you so much. Walter is my father's grandfather and I'm guessing as he served for longer there's more information him. I realise the number I posted is the regiment number for Joseph not his actual number which I will try and locate now. I'd just like to find out if he was ever awarded his service medal and see what I can do to rectify it if he wasn't. I'm not sure if what I've found is evidence of his award (top left) along with Walters and Williams (Walters father) I will attach below...

[jonbem]

If you are not an Ancestry subscriber then your local library (when it re-opens) may provide access.

[Debbie]

I am a new ancestry subscriber so will have a look

[jonbem]

If you can give us DOB, location it may help in searching, as often there are numerous mistranscribed records

[Debbie]

19 minutes ago, jonbem said:

If you can give us DOB, location it may help in searching, as often there are numerous mistranscribed records

 

[jonbem]

Walter service record on Ancestry HERE

[jonbem]

1 hour ago, jonbem said:

Walter service record on Ancestry HERE

Looking through that on Ancestry I can see the confusion

Image 19338 is Walter but then you get to 19344 and it is Joseph Herbert. Very Strange!

Then image 19350 is Walter J again, then 19352 Joseph Herbert!

Then 19358 is Walter again (#3037)

Edited 19 March , 2021 by jonbem

[jonbem]

Now if you look at image 19338 you see his name as Walter Joseph with age of 19 years & some months, so did Joseph Herbert give his fathers name as he was slightly under age? Or was it mis-transcribed by whomever filling in the faters name in the wrong place on the form? April 1897 to Nov 1915 is about 18 years 6 months, so something not right.

 

[jonbem]

Further to the previous post, if Walter was his father this could be him, so he would have been 45 years old in 1915

Name:	Walter Skilton
Age:	6/12
Estimated Birth Year:	1870
Relation:	Son
Gender:	Male
Where born:	Lambeth Surrey England
Civil parish:	Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish:	Holy Trinity
County/Island:	London
Country:	England
Registration district:	Lambeth
Sub-registration district:	Lambeth Church First

[Debbie]

56 minutes ago, jonbem said:

Looking through that on Ancestry I can see the confusion

Image 19338 is Walter but then you get to 19344 and it is Joseph Herbert. Very Strange!

Then image 19350 is Walter J again, then 19352 Joseph Herbert!

Then 19358 is Walter again (#3037)

Ok so this is what I know from birth/marriage certificates...Walter Joseph was actually born Joseph Walter on 25/4/1866 at 26 Isabella street, Gibson street, Lambeth. He married Alice Newman on 15/4/1889. Joseph Herbert was his 3rd child born 23/4/1897 at 52 Tanwell Street, Oakley street Lambeth. 

[jonbem]

Looking through that service record he was discharged in 1918 from Catterick, just 3 miles down the road from me!

[jonbem]

It looks as if he was wounded, but I can't seem to find a Silver War bage record yet.

[Debbie]

32 minutes ago, jonbem said:

Looking through that service record he was discharged in 1918 from Catterick, just 3 miles down the road from me!

Yes that's right Catterick 😊 I can't believe you are only 3 miles from there !

[Debbie]

If you look at this document the dates fit Joseph Herbert he served from 1915 to 1918 but you can clearly see the name is Walter yet it's signed Joseph. All I've seen re hospitalisation for Joseph is scabies!