Menin Gate Memorial

[Drafter]

Just wanted to ask don't if this has been asked or no. What were the requirements for a soldier to be listing on the menin gate memorial plaque listings. I read that it was in Ypres if a soldier fought say in the battle of Passchendaele would a soldier get listed on there? Or would it be for having fought in another area in Belgium? My great great uncle Eric James Bate was in the CEF 19th Battalion was killed in action November 8, 1917 in the battle of Passchendaele and his bariel is in the Tyne Cot Cemetery. Does it show those that were in the CEF? What I was wondering if the Menin Gate Memorial has listings of names and if so I was wondering if Eric might be listed on there. Just wondering if anyone has a listing of those names on the plaques and if it would be possible to do a lookup to see if Eric is listed there or not. Does the Menin Gate have a website or are there any other sources online to show what it looks like? I would greatly appreciate any help on this. Thanks very much.

[Guest Hill 60]

Drafter - I can't remember the cut-off dates but the Menin Gate (someone will let us know) has the names of those who died in the Ypres Salient and have no known grave. Tyne Cot has the names (on the memorial wall) of those who died after the cut-off date for the Menin Gate and have no known grave.

Go to the CWGC site HERE.

On the right of the screen you'll see 'Debt of Honour Register'. On the dropdown menu change it from 'Casualty' to 'Cemetery' and type in 'Menin Gate' and you'll end up with a list of those on that memorial.

The CEF are on the Menin Gate.

Obviously you can look for any cemetery this way.

[Jacky Platteeuw]

Drafter,

All missing (around 6950) Canadian soldiers are commemorated on the Menin Gate. The split date for British Soldiers is roughly mid August 1917 (some exeptions though).

Jacky

[Tealeaf]

I'm still puzzled as to why there appears to be an arbitary date seperating the names on the Menin gate and those at Tyne Cot. What was the explanation for this? Was there possibly a miscalculation of the surface area needed to list the missing at the Menin Gate?

[Guest lilydalelil]

Drafter

As your great uncle is known to be buried at Tyne Cot, his name would not be added to either Menin Gate or Tyne Cot Memorials. Those listed unfortunately have no known grave.

By searching the Commonwealth War Graves Site, www.cwgc.org you can find his details including the fact that he won the Military Medal.

You have reason to be proud of him.

[Aurel Sercu]

I'm still puzzled as to why there appears to be an arbitary date seperating the names on the Menin gate and those at Tyne Cot. What was the explanation for this? Was there possibly a miscalculation of the surface area needed to list the missing at the Menin Gate?

As far as I know, this is the explanation indeed..

I'll have a look if I can find more details, but maybe Jacky 'Menin Gate' Platteeuw knows them ?

Aurel

[Aurel Sercu]

From : Dominiek Dendooven, "Menenpoort en Last Post", 2001, p. 59

(Translated, but exists in English too.)

In May 1921 IWGC-director Fabian Ware estimated the number of names for the Memorial to the Missing a little more than 10,000, i.e. the number of missing in First Ypres. Some time later this was extended to all missing of the Ypres Salient, but because the Menin Gate would not have enough room for more than 60,000, plans were made for a second Memorial to the Missing, in Tyne Cot Cemetery, Passendale (with the names of the missing post 15 Aug 1917. (...)

The procedure to determine which names were to be inscribed on the panels was - roughly - :

- First the official lists Officers Died in the Great War and Soldiers Died in the Great War were to be compared with the index of graves of the Imperial War Graves Commission. Men mentioned as dead but whose names were not on the IWGC lists were considered as missing

- Based on divisional war diaries it was determined in what area a soldier had been missing.

- NoK's were asked to check and correct

- A list was drawn up per memorial, and the names for each Memorial were distributed for inscription on the panels.

This gigantic work was finished by 1926.

And on p. 108 :

The decision to take 15 aug 1917 as cut-off date, was taken, after many calculations, in 1924.

I must say that it is not really clear to me if the later decision to have the names inscribed on 2 memorials was the result a real miscalculation, in the strict sense of the word. I must admit I don't understand the "10,000, i.e. the number of missing in First Ypres". Was the original plan to have the names of the missing of First Ypres only inscribed, or had the number of missing in the Salient 14-18 really been so grossly underestimated in 1921 ?

Aurel

[Guest lilydalelil]

Drafter enquired about a Canadian Casualty.

Australia's unknown casualties of Third Ypres are all commemorated at Menin.

They are later than the cut-off dates nominated above.

Where are the Canadians & other Empire troops lost at Passendale listed?

[Terry Denham]

The Menin Gate cut-off date cited by Jacky applies to British troops only. Other nationalities (except NZ) are there in full.

New Zealand troops from the Salient are all listed on the Tyne Cot Memorial or at Buttes and Messines Ridge NZ Memorials.

[Drafter]

I am very proud of my great great uncle I have nothing against his accomplishments. Was just seeing if he was listed in any other places. I knew that he was barried at Tyne Cot all along what I didn't know was that if a soldier was unknown that he would get listed on a plaque like at Menin Gate or Tyne Cot. I thought maybe since he had fallen on belgium soil that he might have been also listed at Menin Gate or Tyne Cot Memorial at the same time of being barried at Tyne Cot. I knew of Menin Gate I am not familiar with the Tyne Cot Memorial is the same place as Tyne Cot Cemetery? Is it a plaque listing within that cemetery or is it outside of the cemetery?

I don't have his MM have a copy of the MM Citation I only have his 1914-15 Star and did also win the BWM and the VM had carbuncle on his back then was able to return to duty again also had it again when he was killed in action as far as I could tell from the service record I got on him. On April 9, 1917 is when he got the MM at Vimy Ridge and this is what it said on the citation for conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty in action. During the advance, the N.C.O.'s of his section had become casualties. As senior soldier he rallied the men and by his own fearless example led the men to their objective. Throughout the action this man showed a total disregard for danger and was a brilliant example to the men."

When I read that I thought that he was a brave man to take these objectives on and rallies his troops to those objectives by thinking of them and not himself. Although that did indanger his life but was great example to them. He gave his life so others could have a chance at freedom. This I will not certainly forget about and certainly proud to have such a family background in military history within my family on him and my granfathers, great uncles and other great great uncles.

[Terry Denham]

Drafter

The Tyne Cot Memorial is a very large memorial to the missing forming the rear wall of Tyne Cot Cemetery.

Attached is a photo courtesy of ace photographer Aurel Sercu.

It bears the names of 34,871 British and New Zealand soldiers listed by regiment.

It has a number of rotundas accessed through the entrances with columns you can see in the picture where the name plaques continue. The first you can see to the left is the entrance to the NZ section. My great uncle is on the memorial just at the entrance to the second such rotunda that you can see.

[Drafter]

Now I understand how it works this is interesting reading about the history. This certainly clears things up for me on my great great uncle. Thanks again.