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Remembered Today:

14 star, comparative value Regt to Regt.


mancpal

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I must state that I am neither a dealer or collector of WW1 memorabilia though I do have a very small collection of bits (almost all would fit in a small biscuit tin). Among the medals I have is a '14 star to a Scots Guardsman (medal only, no ribbon or clasp if he was issued one) and though I can relate somehow to the few trios I have in terms of they were  family friends I have no recollection of how I came by this star.

My question is not one of selling the medal to best profit (or selling at all in fact), more to determine if people ever swap equivalent medals and how would one know if say a medal to the Milton Keynes Roundabout Corps had equivalent value to the Skelmersdale Poplar Tree volunteers ? I haven't researched the star yet, though I had  thought I'd save it for the next lockdown.

Thoughts welcome.

 

Simon

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Coldstreamer

Hello

 

It really depends on what you collect. I'd swap coldstream for coldstream but nothing else. Cant recall ever swapping with collector, nearest is p/ex with dealer 

 

Some units had few stars and are worth £££ more than others.  Ie a 4th dragoon star is more than royal artillery 

 

Easy to do tertiary research on him on line

 

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obviously, it needs to be researched. you wouldnt want to swap your  kia on 1st day of Somme with a bog standard un researchable one. likewise the opposite way. 

Also deserter, VC action or similar noted man.

I recall Tom and or another member started a thread regerding names on your medals which provides a resource for those looking for relatives medals, albeit just a record not a for sale section.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Apologies for the late reply ,not sure how I missed your responses.

 As suggested above researching the star would be a start though I’m currently setting up a new workshop so it might have to wait.

 

Simon

 

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tullybrone
2 hours ago, mancpal said:

Apologies for the late reply ,not sure how I missed your responses.

 As suggested above researching the star would be a start though I’m currently setting up a new workshop so it might have to wait.

 

Simon

 


Shouldn’t be a very hard task now that Scots Guards service papers are available on FMP.

 

Steve

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Steve, thanks for your reply however I don't have any subscriptions anymore. As its not a pressing matter I'll wait. When you say that FMP have the Scots Guards service records, does that mean Ancestry don't have them also. If they also have them then I'll wait for the next free weekend.

 

Simon

Edited by mancpal
Spelled my name wrong!
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tullybrone
11 hours ago, mancpal said:

Steve, thanks for your reply however I don't have any subscriptions anymore. As its not a pressing matter I'll wait. When you say that FMP have the Scots Guards service records, does that mean Ancestry don't have them also. If they also have them then I'll wait for the next free weekend.

 

Simon


Hi,

 

SG records currently only on FMP I’m afraid.....

 

Steve

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  • 4 weeks later...

Thanks to excellent assistance from forum member Tullybrone I now know that Pte J.F. Barry was a recipient of a clasp to his star, was captured in early October 1914 and remained a pow until being shot dead by a prison camp guard in Jan 1918 in disputed circumstances. This doesn't help with my original question of how to compare the value of one recipients star to the next though having found out the mans story I am even less inclined to part with it and it wasn't much of a chance in the first place. When I say value, I don't necessarily mean monetary, more the historic value and the story behind it, I suppose it comes down to the interests of the collector. I'm not a collector as such though if ever asked by the press as to how I would spend my lottery millions I'd have to say on some interesting WW1 stuff with a traceable history and waste the rest on trivialities like utility bills.

 

Simon

 

P.S. my forthcoming lottery win is most unlikely as I don't partake in what I view as another poor mans tax (personal opinion only)

Edited by mancpal
momentarily felt like a rant, apologies.
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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Simon,

My collection is Officers Only with invariably an India connection (mainly IARO). 

Only two 14 Stars are represented:-

CPL. S. BODDY, 1-16 Londons (later Capt., IARO, attd Russell's Infy. IGS clasp Waziristan 1919-21),

SPR. E. MATTHEWS, R.E. (later 2/Lt., IARO, attd Sappers & Miners. IGS clasp Afgh NWF 1919).

Clearly the 14 Star to Cpl. Boddy (who witnessed the "Christmas Truce" and was given a silver spoon by a German), is the more valuable.

Images of both were found: several of Boddy, mounted, etc., but only a post-War newspaper shot of the tall Matthews, who was to outlive Boddy...

Kindest regards,

Kim.1638255730_2LtS.M.Boddy.jpg.a38fc439a8fd4e2bd7330b6a310dae72.jpgP1150615.JPG.3ae69a4febcd428f88df9ff92de0611e.JPG1246849049_Matthews2.jpg.f760150ff598a80986c3b274f6f6e80f.jpg1356888370_Mathewsgroup14Starrev.jpg.8c35418be9f79cb6cb5cd328018ddcf0.jpg991427000_ErnestMathewsIAROlateSpr54FdCoyREBid240PoundsDNWJul2019.jpg.1a3a986e3e8872396d0b1f16ecb793c6.jpg

 

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JKL, 

interesting but I'm not sure it helps answer my original question. Incidentally my late wifes maternal grandfather was CSM J.B. Hill D.C.M. of the 16th Londons (QWR).

 

Simon

 

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Simon,

Yes, I was painfully aware that I had failed to address your original question. However, I thought I would share what little I had on the subject of 14 Stars, rather that just passing it over, or leaving it to someone else. Where is that someone?

How interesting that your late wife had a connection to a QWR senior NCO with the DCM.

J. B. Hill would almost certainly have known Sidney Boddy who was with 1/16 Londons pre-Great War (see photos1019538734_QWFpre-War.jpg.4dc587c1c6b58b1658df82ba0b0047ec.jpg1436295638_GWFwithSidneyBoddypre-War.jpg.a77bfba0c84ebf509f4ce15d3cc65b2c.jpg), and had worked in the business of the Commanding Officer!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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Kim, 

CSM Hills DCM was gazetted in about Feb 1915 for being 'an all round good chap' rather than a single act of gallantry. He was however an Old Contemptable with 14 star and clasp trio plus being "mentioned" twice. My wife made an attempt to find more of J B Hills pre-war history but only seemed to get as far as Birmingham at some point and DLI service which I suspect may have been pre-war territorial service. I'd appreciate any further knowledge of him (particularly pre-war) but it appears I'm diverting my own thread. Time for bed

 

Simon

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Simon,

J. B. Hill is not mentioned in the Index of "The War History of the 1st Battalion Queen's Westminster Rifles 1914-1918" ny Major J. Q. Henriques, TD (Formerly of the Regiment).

Research has shown that the erstwhile Cpl. Sidney Boddy, was treated at a CCS on 10 Jun 1915; and furthermore - on 17 Jun 1915, was Wounded - resulting a la longue in a scar to the thigh.

This wound was the classical "Blighty One", and back in the UK he was commissioned and appointed to a training battalion, being promoted to Captain. He then shifted to the IARO and saw service in Waziristan as a Coy Cdr., but that is a long story...

...113993302_1-16LondonsFrance1915.jpg.a12b4cb8d79443416e82814fe9d0ad4b.jpg1369705727_LieutS.M.Boddy.jpg.321fea807866b4038a873b38fd44204d.jpg31855007_CaptSMBoddy.jpg.45d9bd2f84e1edf54e4faff45dd3b945.jpgIt would only divert your thread even more (sorry!).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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Thanks Kim. I'm not surprised that CSM Hill DCM is not mentioned in the history of the QWR. His death was reported in the QWR 'Old Boys' magazine (late '70's from memory) and the Regimental chaps who penned his obituary couldn't find out why he received his DCM. My late wife (chartered Librarian) found a book on the QWR which had a  photo of 4 or 5  men seemingly drinking straight from  SRD rum jars, Its years since I saw thatl picture but in my memory one of them bore a  good resemblance to John Basil Hill, a corporal when he earned his award, later CSM. 

Thanks for your interest,

 

Simon

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 15/04/2021 at 00:00, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear Simon,

Yes, I was painfully aware that I had failed to address your original question. However, I thought I would share what little I had on the subject of 14 Stars, rather that just passing it over, or leaving it to someone else. Where is that someone?

How interesting that your late wife had a connection to a QWR senior NCO with the DCM.

J. B. Hill would almost certainly have known Sidney Boddy who was with 1/16 Londons pre-Great War (see photos1019538734_QWFpre-War.jpg.4dc587c1c6b58b1658df82ba0b0047ec.jpg1436295638_GWFwithSidneyBoddypre-War.jpg.a77bfba0c84ebf509f4ce15d3cc65b2c.jpg), and had worked in the business of the Commanding Officer!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Apologies for going slightly off topic, but briefly would anybody know if there is list of names for the above Photos??

 

 

Dave.

 

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Dave,

The officer (seated in front of Boddy) was possibly (later Capt.) J. B. Whitmore.

He was the Queen’s Westminster Rifles “D” Company commander when they crossed to France on 1 November 1914.

His medals were auctioned fairly recently (DNW): 1914 Star with bar (CAPT., 16/Lond. R.); British War Medal (MAJOR); Victory Medal (MAJOR); Defence Medal 1939-45; Coronation Medal 1911 (engraved ‘Lt. J. B. Whitmore, Queen’s Westminster Rifles’); Territorial Decoration GVR.

There were only a handful of junior officers with the QWR at the time, but I have no access to Army Lists. At least one has the officer's face for exact identification...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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16 minutes ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear Dave,

The officer (seated in front of Boddy) was possibly (later Capt.) J. B. Whitmore.

He was the Queen’s Westminster Rifles “D” Company commander when they crossed to France on 1 November 1914.

His medals were auctioned fairly recently (DNW): 1914 Star with bar (CAPT., 16/Lond. R.); British War Medal (MAJOR); Victory Medal (MAJOR); Defence Medal 1939-45; Coronation Medal 1911 (engraved ‘Lt. J. B. Whitmore, Queen’s Westminster Rifles’); Territorial Decoration GVR.

There were only a handful of junior officers with the QWR at the time, but I have no access to Army Lists. At least one has the officer's face for exact identification...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Thanks Kim, 

it was with regard a Lance corporal that once owned the knife in this thread here...https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/257139-duralumin-1914-war-knifegift-knife/?tab=comments#comment-2599910

It was only a long shot as I hadn’t seen the images before and I didn’t want to hijack Simon’s  thread too much.

 

regards to all,

 

Dave.

 

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