mancpal Posted 26 February , 2021 Share Posted 26 February , 2021 I must state that I am neither a dealer or collector of WW1 memorabilia though I do have a very small collection of bits (almost all would fit in a small biscuit tin). Among the medals I have is a '14 star to a Scots Guardsman (medal only, no ribbon or clasp if he was issued one) and though I can relate somehow to the few trios I have in terms of they were family friends I have no recollection of how I came by this star. My question is not one of selling the medal to best profit (or selling at all in fact), more to determine if people ever swap equivalent medals and how would one know if say a medal to the Milton Keynes Roundabout Corps had equivalent value to the Skelmersdale Poplar Tree volunteers ? I haven't researched the star yet, though I had thought I'd save it for the next lockdown. Thoughts welcome. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 26 February , 2021 Share Posted 26 February , 2021 Hello It really depends on what you collect. I'd swap coldstream for coldstream but nothing else. Cant recall ever swapping with collector, nearest is p/ex with dealer Some units had few stars and are worth £££ more than others. Ie a 4th dragoon star is more than royal artillery Easy to do tertiary research on him on line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 26 February , 2021 Share Posted 26 February , 2021 obviously, it needs to be researched. you wouldnt want to swap your kia on 1st day of Somme with a bog standard un researchable one. likewise the opposite way. Also deserter, VC action or similar noted man. I recall Tom and or another member started a thread regerding names on your medals which provides a resource for those looking for relatives medals, albeit just a record not a for sale section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 16 March , 2021 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2021 Apologies for the late reply ,not sure how I missed your responses. As suggested above researching the star would be a start though I’m currently setting up a new workshop so it might have to wait. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 16 March , 2021 Share Posted 16 March , 2021 2 hours ago, mancpal said: Apologies for the late reply ,not sure how I missed your responses. As suggested above researching the star would be a start though I’m currently setting up a new workshop so it might have to wait. Simon Shouldn’t be a very hard task now that Scots Guards service papers are available on FMP. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 16 March , 2021 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2021 (edited) Steve, thanks for your reply however I don't have any subscriptions anymore. As its not a pressing matter I'll wait. When you say that FMP have the Scots Guards service records, does that mean Ancestry don't have them also. If they also have them then I'll wait for the next free weekend. Simon Edited 16 March , 2021 by mancpal Spelled my name wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 17 March , 2021 Share Posted 17 March , 2021 11 hours ago, mancpal said: Steve, thanks for your reply however I don't have any subscriptions anymore. As its not a pressing matter I'll wait. When you say that FMP have the Scots Guards service records, does that mean Ancestry don't have them also. If they also have them then I'll wait for the next free weekend. Simon Hi, SG records currently only on FMP I’m afraid..... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 13 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2021 (edited) Thanks to excellent assistance from forum member Tullybrone I now know that Pte J.F. Barry was a recipient of a clasp to his star, was captured in early October 1914 and remained a pow until being shot dead by a prison camp guard in Jan 1918 in disputed circumstances. This doesn't help with my original question of how to compare the value of one recipients star to the next though having found out the mans story I am even less inclined to part with it and it wasn't much of a chance in the first place. When I say value, I don't necessarily mean monetary, more the historic value and the story behind it, I suppose it comes down to the interests of the collector. I'm not a collector as such though if ever asked by the press as to how I would spend my lottery millions I'd have to say on some interesting WW1 stuff with a traceable history and waste the rest on trivialities like utility bills. Simon P.S. my forthcoming lottery win is most unlikely as I don't partake in what I view as another poor mans tax (personal opinion only) Edited 14 April , 2021 by mancpal momentarily felt like a rant, apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 14 April , 2021 Share Posted 14 April , 2021 Dear Simon, My collection is Officers Only with invariably an India connection (mainly IARO). Only two 14 Stars are represented:- CPL. S. BODDY, 1-16 Londons (later Capt., IARO, attd Russell's Infy. IGS clasp Waziristan 1919-21), SPR. E. MATTHEWS, R.E. (later 2/Lt., IARO, attd Sappers & Miners. IGS clasp Afgh NWF 1919). Clearly the 14 Star to Cpl. Boddy (who witnessed the "Christmas Truce" and was given a silver spoon by a German), is the more valuable. Images of both were found: several of Boddy, mounted, etc., but only a post-War newspaper shot of the tall Matthews, who was to outlive Boddy... Kindest regards, Kim . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 14 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2021 JKL, interesting but I'm not sure it helps answer my original question. Incidentally my late wifes maternal grandfather was CSM J.B. Hill D.C.M. of the 16th Londons (QWR). Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 14 April , 2021 Share Posted 14 April , 2021 Dear Simon, Yes, I was painfully aware that I had failed to address your original question. However, I thought I would share what little I had on the subject of 14 Stars, rather that just passing it over, or leaving it to someone else. Where is that someone? How interesting that your late wife had a connection to a QWR senior NCO with the DCM. J. B. Hill would almost certainly have known Sidney Boddy who was with 1/16 Londons pre-Great War (see photos), and had worked in the business of the Commanding Officer! Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 15 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2021 Kim, CSM Hills DCM was gazetted in about Feb 1915 for being 'an all round good chap' rather than a single act of gallantry. He was however an Old Contemptable with 14 star and clasp trio plus being "mentioned" twice. My wife made an attempt to find more of J B Hills pre-war history but only seemed to get as far as Birmingham at some point and DLI service which I suspect may have been pre-war territorial service. I'd appreciate any further knowledge of him (particularly pre-war) but it appears I'm diverting my own thread. Time for bed Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 15 April , 2021 Share Posted 15 April , 2021 Dear Simon, J. B. Hill is not mentioned in the Index of "The War History of the 1st Battalion Queen's Westminster Rifles 1914-1918" ny Major J. Q. Henriques, TD (Formerly of the Regiment). Research has shown that the erstwhile Cpl. Sidney Boddy, was treated at a CCS on 10 Jun 1915; and furthermore - on 17 Jun 1915, was Wounded - resulting a la longue in a scar to the thigh. This wound was the classical "Blighty One", and back in the UK he was commissioned and appointed to a training battalion, being promoted to Captain. He then shifted to the IARO and saw service in Waziristan as a Coy Cdr., but that is a long story... ...It would only divert your thread even more (sorry!). Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 15 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2021 Thanks Kim. I'm not surprised that CSM Hill DCM is not mentioned in the history of the QWR. His death was reported in the QWR 'Old Boys' magazine (late '70's from memory) and the Regimental chaps who penned his obituary couldn't find out why he received his DCM. My late wife (chartered Librarian) found a book on the QWR which had a photo of 4 or 5 men seemingly drinking straight from SRD rum jars, Its years since I saw thatl picture but in my memory one of them bore a good resemblance to John Basil Hill, a corporal when he earned his award, later CSM. Thanks for your interest, Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 3 May , 2021 Share Posted 3 May , 2021 On 15/04/2021 at 00:00, Kimberley John Lindsay said: Dear Simon, Yes, I was painfully aware that I had failed to address your original question. However, I thought I would share what little I had on the subject of 14 Stars, rather that just passing it over, or leaving it to someone else. Where is that someone? How interesting that your late wife had a connection to a QWR senior NCO with the DCM. J. B. Hill would almost certainly have known Sidney Boddy who was with 1/16 Londons pre-Great War (see photos), and had worked in the business of the Commanding Officer! Kindest regards, Kim. Apologies for going slightly off topic, but briefly would anybody know if there is list of names for the above Photos?? Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 3 May , 2021 Share Posted 3 May , 2021 Dear Dave, The officer (seated in front of Boddy) was possibly (later Capt.) J. B. Whitmore. He was the Queen’s Westminster Rifles “D” Company commander when they crossed to France on 1 November 1914. His medals were auctioned fairly recently (DNW): 1914 Star with bar (CAPT., 16/Lond. R.); British War Medal (MAJOR); Victory Medal (MAJOR); Defence Medal 1939-45; Coronation Medal 1911 (engraved ‘Lt. J. B. Whitmore, Queen’s Westminster Rifles’); Territorial Decoration GVR. There were only a handful of junior officers with the QWR at the time, but I have no access to Army Lists. At least one has the officer's face for exact identification... Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 3 May , 2021 Share Posted 3 May , 2021 16 minutes ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said: Dear Dave, The officer (seated in front of Boddy) was possibly (later Capt.) J. B. Whitmore. He was the Queen’s Westminster Rifles “D” Company commander when they crossed to France on 1 November 1914. His medals were auctioned fairly recently (DNW): 1914 Star with bar (CAPT., 16/Lond. R.); British War Medal (MAJOR); Victory Medal (MAJOR); Defence Medal 1939-45; Coronation Medal 1911 (engraved ‘Lt. J. B. Whitmore, Queen’s Westminster Rifles’); Territorial Decoration GVR. There were only a handful of junior officers with the QWR at the time, but I have no access to Army Lists. At least one has the officer's face for exact identification... Kindest regards, Kim. Thanks Kim, it was with regard a Lance corporal that once owned the knife in this thread here...https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/257139-duralumin-1914-war-knifegift-knife/?tab=comments#comment-2599910 It was only a long shot as I hadn’t seen the images before and I didn’t want to hijack Simon’s thread too much. regards to all, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve hammond Posted 4 July , 2021 Share Posted 4 July , 2021 Hi Gents, The Officer in the group photo is 2nd Lt Samuel Leroy Townsend-Green who went to France as part of E Coy. This group photo shows the men of the advance billeting party in Leverstock Green in August 1914. Samuel's brother Henry went to France Commanding F Coy, Henry died of wounds on 3rd March 1915. The Corporal on Samuel's left is Eric Englefield Rowden who was later wounded as a Sub Lt in Hawke Battn RND. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 4 July , 2021 Share Posted 4 July , 2021 Dear Steve, Many thanks for identifying both 2Lt S. L. Townsend-Green, as well as Cpl E. E. Rowden, vis-a-vis S. M. Boddy... Both Rowden and Boddy obviously knew each other well and were subsequently commissioned (the latter wounded as a Cpl with the QWR). Placing the group photo at Leverstock Green in Aug 1914 was also helpful. Thanks! Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 4 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2021 ..... with no reference to the original question. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 4 July , 2021 Share Posted 4 July , 2021 (edited) Evening gentlemen Sorry to intrude and a bit off topic, I have noticed that you are debating the relative merits of 14 Star medals in your ownerships, have you thought about entering them on the “Here are a list of names on my…..”. thread which I have been looking after for a few years now.. I see that you have done so in the past and I’m wondering if you feel like adding new additions to the listing. Not to worry if you do not wish to participate, I will not break your confidentiality and enter any of the above (I haven’t done so before so won’t start now) John ps My thought on the original question, it doesn’t matter what regiment, they were all deserved, placing one regiment above another due to percieved importance in the line is “unfair”. Where there can be a difference is in the rarity value due to scarcity eg. a pair from the Westmorland and Cumberland Yeomanry versus Royal Field Artillery, Edited 4 July , 2021 by Knotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazack Posted 19 January , 2022 Share Posted 19 January , 2022 Evening all I feel that the value can be attached to not just to 1914 stars but medals in general can be dictated by the regiment and how many of each where issued to the regiment, was the recipient involved in a historical action or period (My grandfather who served in the Gordon Highlander was wounded in a VC action awarded to a member in his company and I have has trio so they could be deemed more valuable as a result), also it depends on what some one will wish to pay or what they value it at. I have a 1915 star in my collection for awarded to a member of the NZ Samoa (Advance) Expeditionary Force one of only 1400 soldiers in that force and only a small group from his regiment so that could be seen as valuable in a different manner At the end of the day value is what we as collectors choose to set as much as anything else Regards C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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