“Wimbledon’s Own” 190th Brigade RFA

[oscarquebec]

My Grandfather served with C Battery 'Wimbledon’s Own' RFA. I was interested to find this recruiting poster, and wondered why there were different height requirements for gunners and drivers.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Gunner 87]

Hi oscarquebec, I wonder if it's as simple as what the Army felt each role's minimum requirement was. Having searched online I note that pre WW2 the Royal Artillery required men to be 5'4", though for mechanised units, 5'8". I have copied in two artillery experts that may well be able to assist further. @Gunner Hall @ianjonesncl

[Gunner Hall]

Yes, the Gunners ( and other less illustrious mobs, like the Life Guards😃) had minimum height requirements in the Great War.   The long, long trial has the following

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/instructions-for-the-physical-examination-of-recruits/height-and-weight-tests/

Not sure why. I don't think height necessarily means strength. I'm 6 foot 2, and am as weak as a kitten. 

[ianjonesncl]

I can not recollect coming across this requirement before.

 

I had a look through the Field Artillery Training Manual 1914 to see if can shed any light on it. There is reference to the burden on horses even with the lightest of men. I wonder if it was thought the shorter men would be lighter and therefore better suited to drivers.

[oscarquebec]

Thank you Gunner 87, Gunner Hall and ianjonesncl

 

All room for thought, particularly the tables on LLT (very interesting). Makes you realise that folk were generally smaller in those days. My Grandfather was around 5’6’’ and 8 1/4 stone as were his brothers all of whom served. I’m reasonably sure my Grandfather was a driver as I remember him telling me about his riding lessons. Apparently it included riding without saddles on a shingle surface, no doubt an inducement not to fall off - if true.

[Gunner Hall]

The thing that astonishes me the most is their chest measurement, both on the tables mentioned above and on attestation papers.  Today, we are reaping the benefits of a vastly better diet.  

 

The Cavalry seem to require a recruit with a bigger chest.  In Robsons Swords of the British Army: The Regulation Patterns, 1788-1914  There is mention of "Lead Cutters"  I don't have my copy here,  but I think the inference was that they spent some time swinging hugely heavy blunt blades at bars of lead,  to develop upper body strength,  and a vicious cut.  Perhaps they needed a better upper body  physique to start with? (However, I've just remembered  that the '08 pattern was a thrusting weapon,  so lead cutting would be superfluous)

 

 

 

  

Edited 24 February , 2021 by Gunner Hall

[oscarquebec]

Absolutely right Gunner Hall. My Grandfather often said his mother hardly recognised her boys when they came home from basic training after 'a healthy life' and three squares a day. Despite an injury my ancestor and friends look healthy enough in this picture of C Battery cross country team in 1919. He is to the right of the officer.

[Gunner Hall]

Part of 1st Rhine brigade. Almost 62 years later a young 2nd Lt Hall would follow your Grandfather in the same unit ( although by then, we were the 1at Artillery division)That's inflation for you!

[ianjonesncl]

From this ORBAT http://orbat.com/site/history/volume5/518/Original BAOR.pdf it looks like the "London Division"  was formed from the 41st Division with 190 Brigade RFA being part of the Divisional Artillery. 

 

Some information may be of interest:

Cologne Bridgehead - Northumbrian Gunner meanderings - Great War Forum

[ianjonesncl]

Just come across a reference to drivers having a minimum height... and it dates back to 1858 in reforms following the Crimean War. 

 

Major-General Sir Charles Callwell and Major General Sir John Headlam. The History of the Royal Artillery from the Indian Mutiny the Great War. Volume 1 (1860-1899).

Naval and Military Press Ltd

 

"The separation of drivers from gunners in the units of field artillery, effected in 1858, coupled with the fixing of a limit in respect of the maximum height of drivers, helped to place the mounted branch on a sound footing."

 

From this it would seem regulations may have been in place for over 50 years. The narrative does not outline why the height differentiation was introduced. 

 

[oscarquebec]

I notice in respect of the 190th Brigade 'Wimbledon's Own' batteries A-D were filled much quicker than expected. Later volunteers were posted to the ammunition column. I guess the same height regulations would apply.

[ianjonesncl]

I wonder with the need to recruit to quickly bring units up to strength how rigorously regulations were applied.

[oscarquebec]

A good point, I've no doubt that once on the Western Front height regulations were of little importance

[Frank Wheeler]

On 24/02/2021 at 17:06, oscarquebec said:

Absolutely right Gunner Hall. My Grandfather often said his mother hardly recognised her boys when they came home from basic training after 'a healthy life' and three squares a day. Despite an injury my ancestor and friends look healthy enough in this picture of C Battery cross country team in 1919. He is to the right of the officer.

Hi, new to the Forum, researching a man from the 190th and came across this thread, just wondered if there were any names to the men in this picture as my man , Dvr Sydney Agrent was in Cologne 1919.