PENSION CARDS - Redaction [by WFA/Fold3] - what/why/when/how/how viewed?

[Matlock1418]

Having previously looked at thousands of pension cards I recently came across something I had not encountered before [so hopefully not too many of them exist]

Looked at a widow & children's pension card = It has a redaction of a child's details

[or so it would seem - as that is the area of the card it came from/a list of children]

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

Wondered what remit WFA/Fold3 had when scanning/has perhaps for the future as to circumstances, rules and mechanisms for such a redaction(s) on pension cards [and perhaps for other types of redactions - past and potentially in the future]

???

How to see? Now and/or in the near future??

[Otherwise they will end up rather like the 1939 Register - with all its now rather out-of-date infuriating and unhelpful redactions]

???

:-/ M

[David Tattersfield]

On 16/02/2021 at 19:22, Matlock1418 said:

Having previously looked at thousands of pension cards I recently came across something I had not encountered before [so hopefully not too many of them exist]

Looked at a widow & children's pension card = It has a redaction of a child's details

[or so it would seem - as that is the area of the card it came from/a list of children]

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

Wondered what remit WFA/Fold3 had when scanning/has perhaps for the future as to circumstances, rules and mechanisms for such a redaction(s) on pension cards [and perhaps for other types of redactions - past and potentially in the future]

???

How to see? Now and/or in the near future??

[Otherwise they will end up rather like the 1939 Register - with all its now rather out-of-date infuriating and unhelpful redactions]

???

:-/ M

Please pm me the url

[Promenade]

Here's another

 

[RaySearching]

Not to difficult to see what is being hidden

Leslie Cashmore  born 27/9/1908

The question is why

 

Ray

[Kath]

An hundred year rule?

[Matlock1418]

4 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Not to difficult to see what is being hidden

Excellent lateral thinking for pre-1911 births!  :-)

5 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

The question is why

???

:-) M

[RaySearching]

1 minute ago, Kath said:

An hundred year rule?

 

Then 95% of the cards would  have redactions, but they do not

 

Ray

[Matlock1418]

4 minutes ago, Kath said:

An hundred year rule?

???

If such a 'year rule' - how will they get amended/removed as time goes on?

[The 1939 Register still has plenty of redactions that I believe are now out of date and I don't know how those are going to get removed]

???

:-) M

[Promenade]

Ray Searching - Yes I worked out the dob and name as you did - however this may not always be possible.

 

Like Matlock1418 I have looked at many thousands of these cards but this is the only redaction I have found. I passed it over at the time putting it down to an overzealous transcriber or by someone who has asked for the details to be removed for whatever reason.

 

The exam question here as stated by Matlock1418 remains why and will the redactions ever be removed.

 

Promenade

[Kath]

18 minutes ago, Kath said:

An hundred year rule?

Family request?

[Matlock1418]

20 minutes ago, Kath said:

Family request?

Similar entries - as found by Ray Searching's excellent idea for pre-1911 births [the 1911 Census] are not redacted by Ancestry [Fold3's parent] - for the then child in question it is not redacted.

Edit: Neither is the 1939 Register entry redacted for the then not quite so young child!

For pension cards:

Why done? [in past]

How done? [in future??]

How removed? [in future??]

When removed? [in future??]

???

:-/ M

Edited 20 February , 2021 by Matlock1418
Edit

[Promenade]

I have transcribed 1000's of these cards into a database and this is the only entry that has been redacted - many 100's of these have children with dates of birth prior to 1911

 

Promenade

[RaySearching]

We could all speculate why the redactions have taken place on the pension cards

 

I am sure David Tattersfield is going to query this with Ancestry

 

and report back with his findings with an explanation of why the redactions were made in the first place and why

[Derek Black]

How many people will be on these cards that isn't now dead? They'd need to be at least, what, 103?

[TEW]

20 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

???

If such a 'year rule' - how will they get amended/removed as time goes on?

[The 1939 Register still has plenty of redactions that I believe are now out of date and I don't know how those are going to get removed]

???

:-) M

 

The FMP version of 1939 register released 85,000 redacted entries. This was reported in 'FMP Fridays' of 9/1/2020. They don't make it clear if that was done en masse or piecemeal but they say:

Findmypast has matched more than four million 'closed records' to multiple data sources to correctly confirm the date and location of death for individuals recorded.

 

Ancestry say they operate under the 100 year birth rule for 1939 register unless a death is reported to TNA.

 

I suspect there are mismatched reductions on FMP & Ancestry.

 

TNA say that FMP check against GRO entries while ancestry remove redactions automatically based on 100 year rule.

 

FMP users can remove a redaction for free via FMP by supplying a death certificate while non-FMP users have to pay TNA £24.35 for a transcription and the redaction is removed from FMP version.

 

Doesn't help at all with the original pension query.

TEW 

 

[clive_hughes]

In passing, I checked the 1939 register entry for a local man's family, and he himself was shown in full (still alive and kicking, and well under 100 years old).

[David Tattersfield]

On 20/02/2021 at 19:49, Promenade said:

Here's another

 

thanks. Will look into it. Probably redacted in error. 

[David Tattersfield]

On 20/02/2021 at 21:59, RaySearching said:

I am sure David Tattersfield is going to query this with Ancestry

 

Yes - it's been acknowledged by Ancestry and is in hand. 

On 20/02/2021 at 20:45, RaySearching said:

 

Then 95% of the cards would  have redactions, but they do not

 

Ray

I suspect there are a very small number of erroneous redactions. If these are PM'd to me, I'll report them to Ancestry. 

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, David Tattersfield said:

I suspect there are a very small number of erroneous redactions. If these are PM'd to me, I'll report them to Ancestry. 

Thanks David,

I've only seen one in thousands but best now/early addressed for the long term.

:-) M

[RaySearching]

Thanks David

[Promenade]

Thanks from me too

 

Promenade

[PaulC78]

Was any action taken with regard to redacted entries? I've just found one myself which reminded me of this topic:

Another card for the same man indicates that his case was rejected due to his children being over the age of 21.

https://www.fold3.com/image/645500303?xid=1022

[PRC]

31 minutes ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

I have probably missed this when reading through this thread but who actually did the redactions?????   Ancestry? Fold3?  WFA?   DWP?   To me,that is half the struggle- ascertain WHO did it-for sure-then ask for the principles of redaction.   My suspicion is DWP  but let's see what turns up.

I don't think it's been stated in the responses so far, but looks like the Ancestry stamp to me on the covering strip - of the kind encountered on the template back of a MiC that Ancestry use.

Cheers,
Peter

[ss002d6252]

@David Tattersfield. are you able to add any update to the above?

Craig

[David Tattersfield]

51 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

@David Tattersfield. are you able to add any update to the above?

Craig

Thanks for this Craig. I've gone back to the email trail with Ancestry. I see I emailed them (as I mentioned) on 24/2/21. They said they'd look into it, but from looking at the two examples I sent them at the time, these still still to be redacted. 

I've therefore sent a further email asking them to look into this matter. I fear that because this is such a small scale issue (ie a tiny number of erroneous redactions among the mass of 8 million or so images) it is not going to be high on their 'to do' list. However, as I say, I've again drawn it to their attention this morning. 

Cheers

David

9 hours ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

I have probably missed this when reading through this thread but who actually did the redactions?????   Ancestry? Fold3?  WFA?   DWP?   To me,that is half the struggle- ascertain WHO did it-for sure-then ask for the principles of redaction.   My suspicion is DWP  but let's see what turns up.

These are redactions by Ancestry/Fold3 during the scanning process.