Recreation or reliving a battle

[Kathie]

I have read as much as a I can about certain engagements on the Western Fronbt - from the official SA history (John Buchan) to autobiographies and others. I plan to "do" some of these myself. But how is it actually done??

For instance, I want to understand the Butte de Warlencourt engagement of October 1917. I have the story, I have the outline map (but dont have trench maps). Can I just drive up and walk around or are there more sensible things to do. This is not really a question to be put under "Im going to the battlefield" but more how can one learn to understand an engagement and then put that knowledge into practice on the ground.

Has anyone reading perhaps done the following or have suggestions on what they think I should do in the following places:

1. 9th Division - SAI - September 1917 - Zonnebeeck

2. SAI - April 1918 - Messines (up to Wytshaete road)

3. Arras - April 1917 - SAI - 9th Division - think Fampoux area since death is on 12th April

4. SAI - October 1918 - Cambrai battle - SAI from western side across to Le Cateau

5. March 1918 - SAI - Marrieres Wood

6. July 1916 - Delville Wood but the buildup also from Longueval

7. Warlencourt - October 1916- several days ??? how to trace it??

I have done something similar before but think I was too simplistic - I just went and wandered and visited cemeteries. I have not joined a tour becuase tours dont really do these particular engagements - my interest is specifically South aFrican - and also I can only get over there on particular dates. I would, this time, like to set off with my maps and all I have learnt and follow through in a morning or a day as much as is possible of the particular engagements - I want to start where my particular soldiers started and end where they did (not literally of course sicne I will go to my hotel to a nice supper).

I am sure there are Western Front experts who can advise.

Thank you

Kathie

[danny]

Hi There

Far from an expert but I have just returned from the Somme and found Barry Cuttell's books, "One Day on the Somme" (For Longueval and Delville Wood) and "148 Days on the Somme" (For the Butte de Warlencourt) fantastic sources. Also, reproduction trench maps of Longueval/Delville Wood can be bought from G.H. Smith and Son (they have a website) or from any of the visitor centres in the area. I am sure there will be others with more specific advice. Enjoy your trip!

Danny

[danny]

OOPS, Just before anyone jumps in. You will only need the "148 Days on the Somme". I am banging my head against the wall now

[Kathie]

Danny, thanks for the info about GH Smith - I found the website so easy and am now just checking to whcih I will order. Thanks very much indeed.

Kathie

[BatterySergeantMajor]

Hi There

Far from an expert but I have just returned from the Somme and found Barry Cuttell's books, "One Day on the Somme" (For Longueval and Delville Wood) and "148 Days on the Somme" (For the Butte de Warlencourt) fantastic sources.

Danny

I am quite disappointed by the maps in these books. Far to vague.

Wijtschate-Messines area is a nice walking area.

The place of the 9th Div- September 1917 attack is a bit less easy to acces , but a view from the main road Zonnebeke- Potijze (old road to Ypres) may help to get an insight in the situation. Eventually go to the offices of the brickworks and ask for permission to walk over their grounds, it is the location of Bremen Redoubt (closed to the public because it is collapsing). I'm not sure if they will agree, but always worth a try.

Erwin

[Kathie]

Thanks for that info about the brick works - I will ask. Maybe Ill be lucky. I take it there are no little tracks so one has to go on the main road.

Kathie

[BatterySergeantMajor]

Thanks for that info about the brick works - I will ask. Maybe Ill be lucky. I take it there are no little tracks so one has to go on the main road.

Kathie

Kathie

There are some smaller tracks on the downwards slope of Frezenberg, but they are some distance behind the SA line. They can help to give you an insight in what happened in the weeks before the 9th Division came into action.

Have a good trip

Erwin

[Mat McLachlan]

Hi Kathie,

I've walked the route of quite a few of the Australian battles, so I can give you some advice that may be useful for following the SA campaigns.

The first thing I do is read the Official History and familiarise myself with the course of the battle.

Next, I pick a specific part of the battle that interests me (this is important, because battles usually involved thousands of men spread over kilometres of battlefield and it's not practical in most cases to walk the entire battle). For example, when I walked the route of the Australian advance at Broodseinde Ridge, I chose the route of the 10th Brigade in their attack towards Tyne Cot.

Next I find a modern map that covers the same ground as the battle, and check to see that there are landmarks that can be easily followed. This is again important because if you follow an advance across a featureless field, apart from knowing that fighting occurred all around you, you won't be able to locate specific points of action. Additionally, it's much more practical to follow an advance along roads and tracks, rather than cutting across fields that are private land and may have crops growing in them. Using the Broodseinde example again, this was another factor that led me to follow the 10th Brigade attack - by coincidence there is a road that runs directly along their route of advance. In many cases you will find that roads have not changed much since the war and make the best landmarks for pinpointing important areas of the battle.

Once I've worked out roughly where I want to walk, I usually make a photocopy of the area from the modern map, and mark on it wartime landmarks from the Official History. This might be a pillbox that was located at a road junction, a trench line that crossed a track at X point, a clump of trees that marks the sight of a redoubt, etc... I can then use this photocopy for navigation on the ground and ensure I don't miss anything important. I also carry the Official History with me to read about the actions at each site.

By using this system I've found it easy to follow the course of the battles, and see the ground from the same perspective as the soldiers. If you'd like any more info, please just ask.

Cheers,

Mat

[Kathie]

Mat, this is great help . Thank you. I have got the official history and an even better unofficial history fo the SAI. Maps not good. So I am still trying to decipher the IGN website and order the blue series and then I will try and get as many trench maps as possible. Thats another thread.

I take your point about not just going across empty fields (which had been my first thought) so am looking for roads and paths etc. Have you found that some of your landmarks are still there?

How do you walk it? - with map in hand, book in the other, and then from beginning to end. that is somewhat what I have planned. Then I would have to retrace to car. What do you learn from this? Is it a meaningful exercise to you?

Sorry for these rather obvious questions but I have never met anyone except myself who has done this - and Ive only done it in general, never in respect of following a specific persons steps - from arrival, through rest billets etc through to cemetery.

Thanks

Kathie

[Mat McLachlan]

Hi Kathie,

I think this is one of the most rewarding ways to visit a battlefield, albeit time-consuming. But I find the whole process - from research to fieldwalking - extremely interesting. No matter how many histories, diaries or trench maps you look at, you only really get the true perspective of a battle from the ground.

Re landmarks, you can usually piece together enough relevent points to follow the course of the battle fairly accurately. At Pozieres for example, the landmarks I followed on the approach route were Tara Hill, Lochnager Crater, Sausage Valley, Casualty Corner, Dead Man's Road and the Chalk Pit - all of these were well known to the fighting men and are still prominent today. And yes, I do walk with a map in one hand and the Official History (or photocopies of the relevant pages) in the other. It's great to be walking along a path in the footsteps of the soldiers and read that 'at this point the men passed a large chalk pit' and to discover it's still there today.

The perspective gained on these walks also gives you a unique insight into the battle - the first time I walked the Broodseinde battlefield, I noted that the Aussies had to fight up a slight slope - and then I saw the pillboxes on the skyline at Tyne Cot. It was only from following the footsteps of the soldiers that I realised what a monumental task they had been set, and what a great achievement this victory was.

I hope you find your walks as rewarding.

By the way, if you want to see the results of a couple of my walks, check out my website: www.diggertours.com

Cheers,

Mat

[AGWR]

Great site Mat.

Look forward to future additions.

Regards,

AGWR

[Mark Hone]

I do 'Battlefield Walks' as an integral part of my school battlefield tours. As Matt says I start with the Official History and maps, both contemporary trench maps and modern ones. An added dimension comes from finding first-hand accounts by people involved in the attack. For example on my last (2004) tour we retraced the attack by 2/5th Lancashire Fusiliers near St Julian on 31st July 1917. As well as trench maps, war diaries and the regimental history I located an account by Lieutenant T. H. Floyd of the battalion, reproduced in Tom Donovan's book 'The Hazy Red Hell'. I was able to read Floyd's account at various points on the walk. The best moment came when I read Floyd's description of coming under artillery fire when sheltering in a shellhole and putting on his respirator. We were accompanied for the walk by Belgian Pal Kristof in complete, authentic 1917 British uniform. He was able to demonstrate putting on the same model of respirator as I read Floyd's words close to the location where it actually happened.

[Kathie]

Thank you both Mark and Mat. I am glad to know I am on to a good thing and that this was not a silly idea. So I set off enthused.

Mat, I have read your account of the Polygon and Pozieres. Your website is inspirational. I am so impressed and wish someone would quickly do one for the areas I want to explore - I feel no need to be the first.

questions - on your web you refer to paths and tracks -how does one know one can just walk along these? Is there something to show they arent private property?

I like your point about marking on the modern map all references at the time eg railway line or calvary or whatever. How did you manage to do that - if they arent there now do you just make a rough note and hope to work out where they might have been.

Suggestions - how long would you make a walk. I see yours are circular. If I leave my car in one place and walk a circle how far in the two main areas - Flanders -for me Frezenberg and then Messine and then on the Somme obvious places like Delville Wood not much walking.

Thank you very much

Kathie

[Mat McLachlan]

AGWR: Thanks for the nice comment.

Kathie: Hmm... you pose some interesting questions. The walks I do are based on landmarks that I will be easily able to identify. In Polygon Wood this is easy - the remains of the Aussie trenches are still there, there are six pillboxes still within the wood and obvious focal points like the Butte are impossible to miss.

I based the Pozieres walk on the approach route to the line. The significant sites at Pozieres such as Gibraltar, the 1st Div Memorial and the Windmill are all easily visited but, for me, didn't give a good impression of the ebb and flow of the battle. In the Australian Official History there is a lengthy description of the soldiers' march to the front at Pozieres, and what they saw as they crossed the old front lines from the 1 July Somme fighting. The second time I visited Pozieres I parked my car on the outskirts of Albert and walked the whole approach route. It took the whole day and, because it was a rainy autumn day and I was often walking cross-country, I certainly gained an insight into the trials of mud and rain faced by the original Anzacs. It's also a great walk - past Lochnagar Crater and up Sausage Valley, left at Casualty Corner and along Dead Man's Road to the chalk pit and eventually Pozieres itself. The walk back to Albert (along the main road) wasn't so much fun, however.

I guess the point is that it depends on the particular battlefield. I assume it would be similar tracing the action at Delville as it was at Polygon Wood (although Polygon Wood was captured in a day, not weeks like Delville Wood). At Broodseinde I based my walk on the location of German pillboxes that held up the advance. One was at a road junction, another at a farm, etc. Even though they are long gone you can still easily find the site on a modern map and on the ground. Part of the interest is working out for yourself the best 'plan of attack' (so to speak) and walking a route of your own choosing.

Re roads and tracks, I tend to think of them as 'common property' and have never had a problem walking on them. Private roads are usually so marked and easily avoided. Even walking across farmland I've never had a problem - as long as there are no crops growing in the field. I always give any farmers I see a friendly wave and do my best to communicate with my appalling French (on the Somme) and non-existent Flemish (in Flanders). I find the farmers in these areas incredibly accommodating. Often they will point out landmarks from the battle or show you relics they have collected.

Hope this helps.

Mat

[Chris Best]

if you want to see the results of a couple of my walks, check out my website

Mat

Great web site, thanks for sharing it with us. I'm not long back from the Somme and followed onr of the BGE tour walks around Pozieres. It was quite good. However, wish I'd spotted your 'mini guide' before; I'd have used it. In fact, I will use it when next I recce in November. Look forward to seeing additional guides as they become available.

A bit odd thread, now. Now you're back in Oz can you tell me if Ted Eagan's cassettes/CDs are still available. I was given his "The Anzacs" in 1986 by an Australian officer (one of the finest officers I ever worked with) whilst we were both attached to the Canadian Forces. It was a great piece and, as I'm off to Gallipoli again in Oct/Nov with a UK miltary group, it'd be graet to have that particular recording to hand.

Regards

Chris Best

[Chris Best]

Kathie

Good on you for starting this thread and introducing us to Mat. Hope you'll follow his format and prepare SA-relevant mini-guides. Hope you have a good trip. If you're staying anywhere near Albert, do try La Cochon Salle in Authuille - outstanding food.

Chris