Allan1892 Posted 9 February , 2021 Share Posted 9 February , 2021 I am trying to help a friend to identify the regiment of this soldier. I have been given images of what looks like the same guy. I asked her to scan at the highest resolution that was possible, sorry that I can't give a clearer image of insignia on right breast. Also, I don't recognise the style of headwear. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 9 February , 2021 Share Posted 9 February , 2021 (edited) It's an Imperial Service Tablet I think - signifying a Territorial's willingness to serve overseas. Black buttons - a TF rifle battalion? Others will get more from uniform details though, I'm sure! Edited 9 February , 2021 by Pat Atkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 9 February , 2021 Share Posted 9 February , 2021 I'll second that Pat. Any chance of a closer look at the hat and shoulder insignia and the first image please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 February , 2021 Share Posted 9 February , 2021 Yes I agree with Pat, unfortunately no metal regimental insignia can be seen and the cloth helmet flash is nondescript. The other photo shows a simple field service cap and what appear to be plain leather buttons on a simplified early war pattern jacket that chimes entirely with the Imperial Service Tablet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTSCF Fareham Posted 9 February , 2021 Share Posted 9 February , 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2021 Thank you for your replies. Jay Dubaya -- I am trying to get an image of a closer look at head and shoulders of the first image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2021 This is the best that my friend can achieve -- doubt if it is useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 Hello Allan1892, do you know where the soldier came from? It may give a clue as to identifying the belt buckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2021 Hello Gunner87 -- he was possibly born in Kent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 45 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said: Hello Allan1892, do you know where the soldier came from? It may give a clue as to identifying the belt buckle. I think he’s wearing a buckle with King’s crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, GWF1967 said: I think he’s wearing a buckle with King’s crown. I wonder if he is serving in the Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) The belt buckle @GWF1967 has identified matches the buttons worn by that regiment. Though on the right hand picture he is obviously wearing black buttons which may negate this theory. According to the LLT, three of the TF Battalion's served in theatres where the uniform worn on the left would have been issued, India, Gallipoli and Egypt. I also note the buttons in this photograph are brass. This is speculation of course, but I am going on the fact he was most likely from Kent, the buckle and buttons match and where the TF served. Edited 10 February , 2021 by Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 (edited) The belt buckle or more correctly clasp is the general service pattern introduced in 1874 to replace regimental patterns, and as a saving to cover the cost of introducing regimental collar badges. The inscription means God is my right and relates to the sanctity of the British crown. It became known as the Union Clasp (relating to the Union of the United Kingdom). It has been issued with the crown of every monarch since Victoria and is still used today, including by some police forces of overseas territories. It can be found on all types of leather and polyethylene belts and is also fitted to the belt and sword carriage used by Army warrant officers not entitled to a Sam Browne. Unfortunately there simply isn’t anything in the photo to reveal the regiment. Edited 10 February , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: The belt buckle or more correctly clasp is the general service pattern introduced in 1874 to replace regimental patterns, and as a saving to cover the cost of introducing regimental collar badges. The inscription means God is my right and relates to the sanctity of the British crown. It became known as the Union Clasp (relating to the Union of the United Kingdom). It has been issued with the crown of every monarch since Victoria and is still used today, including by some police forces of overseas territories. It can be found on all types of leather and polyethylene belts and is also fitted to the belt and sword carriage used by Army warrant officers not entitled to a Sam Browne. Unfortunately there simply isn’t anything in the photo to reveal the regiment. Thanks Frogsmile, I appreciate you clarifying that. One question I hope you may be able to answer. The soldier wears brass buttons in one picture and black in another. Would the RB and other regiments who wore the black button have been issued the same in hotter climes or reverted to the standard brass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said: Thanks Frogsmile, I appreciate you clarifying that. One question I hope you may be able to answer. The soldier wears brass buttons in one picture and black in another. Would the RB and other regiments who wore the black button have been issued the same in hotter climes or reverted to the standard brass? I don’t think that they’re black rifles buttons. They appear to me to be dark brown leather and either, with impressed coat of arms, or smooth. Also rifle regiments did not generally use the Union clasp, they had their own special ‘snake clasp’ similar to the type used on the P1914 leather equipment. Edited 10 February , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 21 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said: ...One question I hope you may be able to answer. The soldier wears brass buttons in one picture and black in another.... 19 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: I don’t think that they’re black rifles buttons. They appear to me to be dark brown leather and either, with impressed coat of arms, or smooth. Original "Simplified" Service Dress jackets (particularly American made items) were sometimes supplied with plain metal buttons painted khaki - this appears to be the case here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 (edited) Thank you Andrew, that’s excellent and might well be the case with orthochromatic film. I’d initially not considered smooth metal (also worn by some Yeomanry units, but slightly different) because the buttons in the photo appeared too dark, but with orthochromatic film I imagine the khaki green paint would appear dark? If only it helped us identify a regiment, but sadly it doesn’t. Edited 10 February , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 2 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said: Original "Simplified" Service Dress jackets (particularly American made items) were sometimes supplied with plain metal buttons painted khaki - this appears to be the case here: Yes it does, thank you and also again to @FROGSMILE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said: Yes it does, thank you and also again to @FROGSMILE. Always glad to help. I’ve always liked the Union clasp and wore one myself many years ago. Here is an early one alongside the rifles pattern clasp. Edited 10 February , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2021 19 hours ago, jay dubaya said: I'll second that Pat. Any chance of a closer look at the hat and shoulder insignia and the first image please. Head and shoulders of first image - don't think it adds anything extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 There’s definitely something on his shoulder strap but unfortunately too pixelated to make out what it may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: There’s definitely something on his shoulder strap but unfortunately too pixelated to make out what it may be. Yes, I agree Jay, that's the exact problem. Indiscernible as it stands. Edited 10 February , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2021 My friend has sent me a slightly better scanned image of his head and shoulders. I have cropped it down just to his belt, and I agree with you all that he is wearing a general service belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February , 2021 Share Posted 10 February , 2021 Yes it’s definitely a Union clasp Allan. If you can try to get a really high quality scan of his shoulder titles in the photo with shorts and helmet that is your best and only chance to make an identification of his regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 11 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2021 18 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes it’s definitely a Union clasp Allan. If you can try to get a really high quality scan of his shoulder titles in the photo with shorts and helmet that is your best and only chance to make an identification of his regiment. Have been sent a scan of his left shoulder. My friend scanned it at the highest resolution that she could but it doesn't appear to be any further use in identifying the regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 February , 2021 Share Posted 11 February , 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Allan1892 said: Have been sent a scan of his left shoulder. My friend scanned it at the highest resolution that she could but it doesn't appear to be any further use in identifying the regiment. Sadly not of sufficient resolution to make a clear ID, I agree. The best I can think of based on the vague outline is a one piece fusilier regiment shoulder title. Edited 11 February , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now