Patrick McGann 7088 Royal Welsh Fusiliers

[kingsman64]

Dear Dave

I have just come across a reference to you being the RWF expert so hope you do not mind the direct approach!

To cut a long story short I have had a photograph and economy all brass cap badge to the Royal Welsh Fusiliers for 30 years. My grandfather new it was an uncle of his, but the passage of time had blurred the memory and apart from "he is a McGann, but I do not know which one", is all I got. Recently when the MIC's for McGann became available I was thrilled to discover only one Royal Welsh Fusilier!

Patrick McGann 7088 first theatre of war F&F 1-11-14 later served as 86118 Royal Defence Corps.

Patrick was indeed my great grandfathers brother and we have confirmed all the details now cross referencing census and family tree research.

Can you tell me please have you ever come across his name during your research?

Mcgann is not very common, he was a Liverpool lad so why the RWF and not the King's? Does his service number indicate pre-war service? Anything you can help with will be greatfully received!

The next mission is to find and purchase his 14 Star trio whatever it costs.

Many thanks and best regards.

[Muerrisch]

His number suggests that he enlisted as a Regular c 1902: if that does not tie in with his age, there are four other possibilities:

enlisted 3RWF [special Reserve] about outbreak of war, or

enlisted in one of the TF battalions in 1914 or 1915, ie 5th, 6th or 7th. [Not 4th, because their 7088 is on the 1914 star roll].

I note you suggest he would have gained the 1914 star. I am sorry to say that I have a complete copy of roll and cannot find him on it. I have only looked at my data base, but have a full set of photos of each page if necessary. If the MIC says 1914 star, I will be a bit surprised [and pleased for you].

If his 1 Nov 1914 date is correct, he should have qualified for the 14-15 star. This is a huge roll and, working with other researchers, it is only 2/7 completely data based. He is not on the portion that we have.

I assume he survived?

As to joining RWF rather than a more local regiment, I have lots from his neck of the woods on my data bases: perhaps he had a mate in already?

Good luck with your search, email me if you think I can help more.

Oh, and on St David's Day I feel emboldened to say that I am a David not a Dave .............. my late mother was very very fussy about that! She would probably not forgive you, but I do.

[kingsman64]

David and on the 1st of March as well! What can I say? How about

Twll dîn pob Sais!

For starters

1902 ties in nicely he would have been 18.

His MIC has 1914 at the top qualifying date is gven as 1-11-14 and in the panel which records the medal roll Victory/BWM appear to be 2P/ page 1204. Then hand written is "14" in front of the word "star" roll number B4 page 83. Does this confirm the 14 Star?

Under his transfer into the RDC it says BWM/Victory returned (1743 K.R.) 7956/adt. Does this indicate a second issue of his BWM/Victory with his RDC number was issued and he returned them?

Thanks for your speedy reply I am so thrilled at having put a name to the picture after all this time.

Y Ddraig Goch ddyry gychwyn

[Muerrisch]

I obviously need to go back to my photos of the 14 roll, and will do so but probably not today. It is possible that he was awarded the star on the RDC roll, which I do not have, although the rules are clearly against that: name, rank and unit should be those of first qualification.

I am not a 14 star expert and you might get more sense from the site if you post an image of the MIC and start a new query for "1914 star experts" or try HarryBetts for example.

Good luck

[Muerrisch]

Your man was almost certainly 1RWF: all the arrivals 1 and 2 Nov 1914 went to 1RWF to fill up after dreadful casualties twice in October. The nearest I have found is frustrating: 7824 Pte McCann N landed 02/11/14.

Not on 1RWF roll for either SA war medal.

Not on 1RWF casualty returns 1418.

Best bet is he is on wrong roll for 1914 star.

[kingsman64]

Thanks for your efforts David

I will post his MIC on the site later tonight.

Regards

Paul.

[Muerrisch]

I will involve Curator RWF Museum when I have seen MIC.

[kingsman64]

Dear David

MIC now converted to JPEG by Mark in Belfast (many thanks for that Mark).

Please see attached definately appears to be "14 Star" the roll seems to be "B 4" or possibly a badly written "134" ?

Please see below

Hope you can glean some extra info for me

Many thanks and best regards.

[Muerrisch]

Paul,

Bad news.

Regarding the BWM and VM they seemingly were returned for breaking up to DD Ord Stores under KR ref 1743, 'medals unclaimed after 10 years'.

Regarding the RWF 1914 stars I do not have the original reference identity for the roll, which might or might not be B4 83. It is possible that he was mistakenly put on another roll. Not an expert on RDC but difficult to imagine ANY RDC had legitimate claim to a 1914 star, so such a roll unlikely to exist.

However it seems likely, I fear, that none of these medals were issued to McGann.

A lot of soldiers had left no relevant forwarding address and were only too glad to be out of the army and made no attempt to claim medals.

Last chance is Curator RWF, who I have asked to look at the 1914 roll full copy in his possession [my photographic record is incomplete, it was pre-digicam days, although I claim my transcription IS complete].

I think you may safely spend any money set aside for his non-existent trio on a slap-up weekend for two somewhere expensive! These things happen, I'm afraid.

[kingsman64]

David not to worry as our American cousins so aptly put it S*** happens!

Thanks for your input. I would still be pleased to hear if the RWF curator has any further info. As I have Patrick's Cap badge, shoulder titles and picture I will make a little frame of bits up with a Trio ribbon bar. Then I can put it up on the wall with all his nephews medals etc.

Many thanks and best regards.

Paul.

Kingsman64

[Muerrisch]

Yes, of course I will feed back: I see the Curator in April and will remind him if necessary.

There are MiC and Roll experts on the Pals list: I would be happy if you asked for a second opinion by posting again with a different title. However, cross refer to this thread please.