WW1 reissued Brodie WW2

[Spree Farm]

Hi,

 

I have recently become the owner of a very sad looking unloved Brodie. The identification mark is a V and is rimless may indicate it could be either a W& E Viener or a Vickers. 'I may stand corrected.  The only other marking are a 6 and a 4.

 

The Helmet was purchased in Australia and has been badly mauled in the name of renovation. The chin strap attaching lugs are dated as Mk III 1941, well fitted and came with a peculiar lining. The lining is a 6 3/4 in size and is well work hardened mad from a rubber composite. 

 

I am wondering if it could be a reissue as a WWII helmet. Could any one shed any light on the matter.

 

The other thing I was going to ask was on its renovation, I am open to suggestion of the best way to approach it. 

[peregrinvs]

I'm fairly confident that's a post-WWI MkII helmet that's either lost it's rim or wasn't manufactured with one. You can tell by the shell shape, the style of the markings and the type of chinstrap attachment lugs. The 1941 date on the lugs is probably the date the helmet was made. You can see a MkI* helmet (a 1916-18 MkI helmet rebuilt in the late 1930's) in this thread here:

 

A Magnetic Attraction - Other Equipment - Great War Forum

[peregrinvs]

Addendum: WWII Australian made MkII helmet without rim:

 

Australia MkII - Brendon's Helmets (weebly.com)

 

[Spree Farm]

Ok great, so how do I renovate it?

[peregrinvs]

Depends what level of restoration you have in mind and whether you want to use original or reproduction parts. Here's a UK source of 'off the shelf' reproduction items:

 

MK2 British Tommy Helmet Liner (sofmilitary.co.uk)

 

MK2 Tommy Helmet Chinstrap (sofmilitary.co.uk)

 

Army Paint Olive Drab (WW2 British Khaki Green) (sofmilitary.co.uk)

Edited 26 January , 2021 by peregrinvs

[Spree Farm]

Thank you for your help. I also picked up this helmet from the same guy

[Hickman]

I used to own a WW1 British Brodie that must have been in use by the US Army during the Great War, as it was later upgraded to the 1938 US “Kelly” leather liner. These were in use in the US Army until 1942.

[JohnC]

Hello Spree Farm.

I see there have been no expert replies to your latest post so I’ll chip in with my non-expert opinion that your second helmet looks like a WW1 model. Split pin tabs, leather strap and asbestos pad. Original paint? The liner is missing but SOF do a repro.

https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/ww1-british-brodie-helmet-liner.html

If this was my helmet I would leave it exactly as it is, in honest unmolested condition. Unless I wanted to wear it, in which case I would install only the missing components from a repro liner.

Regards,

John

[Spree Farm]

Hi John,

 

Thanks for your input. I intend to leave it as is. Still unsure about the Australian one. There is still traces of very rough sandy paint and the 'V' marking inside. Spoke to the previous owner and he informed me that it never had a rim and he cleaned off all the rough paint as it wasn't complete and rusty in parts. We place on the top of the WWI helmet it is the same shape and size.

 

Regards

 

David

On 04/02/2021 at 08:06, Hickman said:

I used to own a WW1 British Brodie that must have been in use by the US Army during the Great War, as it was later upgraded to the 1938 US “Kelly” leather liner. These were in use in the US Army until 1942.

Nice, shame you still don't have it.

[Spree Farm]

Hi,

 

I have done some further research into the helmet and sent photos to the Australian War Museum 

 

This is the response I received 

 

"The helmet itself is of British manufacture (none were made in Australia during the First World War), and is an early example of the helmet. The patent for the Brodie was only filed in August 1915. Your helmet is either a 1^st Pattern Brodie helmet or an early example of what came to called the War Office Pattern Helmet. There are slight differences in overall measurements and in the measurements of the front and back brims in the two patterns. Australians were not issued with steel helmets until the middle of 1916 so your helmet is most likely to have been originally worn by a British soldier. I have not heard that old helmets were reconditioned for use in the Second world War but it would certainly be possible.

 

The original 1^st Pattern Brodies had a camouflaged paint finish of mottled light green, blue and orange; the early War Office patterns were painted inside and out with colours ranging from bright apple green to dull blue-grey. By February 1916 most were painted a dull green. Many helmets were re-painted during the war because the early paint finishes were found to be reflective. Reflection was also reduced by mixing sand with the paint, or adding a hessian cover. Here are some examples from our collection https://www.awm.gov.au/advanced-search?query=steel+helmet+&collection=true&facet_type=Heraldry&facet_related_conflict_sort=8%3AFirst+World+War%2C+1914-1918  You can see that there are a variety of finishes, including apple green".

 

Jane Peek

Curator | Military Heraldry & Technology