Aveluy Wood

[ZIL]

Can anyone help with the location /map of any British  heavy gun batteries in the Aveluy Wood area?

Thanks again Zil

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

Zil, Are you able to say what period or which unit you are interested in?

[ZIL]

Thank you....I cannot be specific...I have three friction tubes found in the area plus the map below but with no key as to what the symbols represent.I was trying to get  a general idea.

I know that friction tubes have been the subject of several posts & they relate to certain gun sizes.

regards Zil

 

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

5 hours ago, ZIL said:

Thank you....I cannot be specific...I have three friction tubes found in the area plus the map below but with no key as to what the symbols represent.I was trying to get  a general idea.

Thank you, Zil, it’s interesting to know why you are seeking the information. I’m not sure I can be a huge amount of help, but I will tell you what I can.

My grandfather was based in the Aveluy area with the 2/5^th LF for quite an extended period from August to November 1915, and mentions that on 10 September 1915 he was invited by a “Major Boon D85 Battery, 4.5” howitzers” to go to see his guns firing. He says: “the Battery positions [were] just off the Martinsart to Mesnil Road, near the Cemetery, and on the Decauville Railway, quite a good position.“

I think you can identify the position on this map.

 

My grandfather has also drawn a sketch plan of Aveluy on which he has labelled some “gun positions”, not, I think the same as the ones where he saw Major Boon fire his guns, but at Halt, also shown on the attached map, just west of Aveluy, He has shown the gun positions as being just to the west of the railway, and just to the north of the Aveluy to Bouzincourt road. He doesn’t say which type of gun were placed in those positions.

Maybe the WD of the 2/5^th LF for the period would have maps showing the gun emplacements? I downloaded the diaries from NA some time ago, but was not looking for maps showing artillery positions, so don’t know whether there are any. I would anyway not be knowledgeable enough to extract the sort of information that you are after from any maps that there are.

Edited 23 January , 2021 by A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy

[ZIL]

That’s  really great...it’s just what I was after .I appreciate the type of guns are not mentioned but it gives some indication as to where batteries were located .The railway would have been used to transport ammunition for all types.The location of Halt also ties in with the Wood .

Really appreciated Zil

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

1 hour ago, ZIL said:

The location of Halt also ties in with the Wood

I have only just noticed that there are two Halts marked on the map uploaded in my previous post; the one on my grandfather's sketch plan is the lower one, nearer to Aveluy, but further away from the Wood. As you say, it would have been sensible to place the guns as close as possible to a point to which ammumition could be delivered via the railway, so maybe guns would have been placed near the more northerly Halt as well, unless there was good reason for not doing so, such as poor lines of sight. Looking at it the other way, I suppose you would also expect them to provide "Halts" near to the best position for the guns, so it is perhaps surprising that there isn't one near the Cemetery, though Mesnil Station is not too far further along.

[ZIL]

I agree...unfortunately I cannot be more accurate with location ...any chance of sight of the sketch plan...it’s amazing what soldiers recorded ?

Thanks again for your input.

Regards Zil

[brianmorris547]

LF

I have been trying to identify Major Boon without success. The WD of 18 Div CRA records that on 29/07/1915 D/85 joined 51 Div Artillery (2/5 LFs were in 51 Div ). The WD of 51 Div CRA refers to ammunition used by D/85 in the notes to the September 1915 WD and the WD of D/85 (in 18 Div) records that on 10/09/1915 17 rounds were fired in the afternoon. The WD was signed by Major (James) Carruthers, who is named earlier as the BC. The Battery was certainly in the right area but I could not find specific locations anywhere.

Brian 

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

2 hours ago, ZIL said:

...any chance of sight of the sketch plan...

Zil, the sketch plan is indeed a sketch, not an accurate plan, and its main point  was to show the layout of Aveluy itself (street layout etc.), It is mere happenstance that the gun positions are marked in one corner of the plan, so I'm afraid that seeing the whole thing will not give you any greater accuracy than the description in my earlier post.

 

1 hour ago, brianmorris547 said:

I have been trying to identify Major Boon without success.

 

Brian, my grandfather mentions Major Boon three or four times during this period. He says of him "Major Boon was a very fine soldier, and an exceedingly nice man. He had fought through the Mons Retreat, Le Cateau, and the Aisne Battles. He won the DSO and MVO." Until now I have not myself tried to find any further details of him, though I suppose with those decorations he must appear somewhere.

Also, I still find it difficult to find artillery units in the NA catalogue. Would you mind giving me the reference where I can find the D/85 WD? I am interested that you have found a record of 17 rounds being fired on the day in question, and am curious to read it for myself.

[ZIL]

Thanks both..understand about the sketch...amazing how things develop.

Regards Zil

[brianmorris547]

LF

In Ancestry under War Diaries use the Browse this Collection box on the right. Search under Royal Horse and Field Artillery - 18 Div - Piece 2025/3. The 85 Brigade WD is split into each Battery with D/85 July and August 1915 starting at p 31/221 and September 1915 on p 79/221. I can not find Major Boon in any Battery or the Battery /Brigade Ammunition Columns. D/85 was loaned to 51 Div at the time so Major Boon may have been in that Division.

Brian

EDIT : At the risk of hi jacking this thread - I will try and find Zil's map later - I think I have a possible for Major Boon. This document is from the August 1914 WD of the Commander RA 2 Div (TNA and Ancestry) and shows a Capt Boone as the Adjutant of 34 Brigade RFA. The 1914 WD of 34 Brigade RFA can be found under Various (Divisional Troops) - 2 Div - Piece 1324. 34 Brigade starts on p 140/521 and Cpt Boone is shown as being one of four Officers wounded in the period from 23/08/1914 to 29/09/1914. He was on the Retreat from Mons and The Aisne.

Edited 24 January , 2021 by brianmorris547

[ZIL]

Thanks Brian...highjack away it’s all relevant to the area in question  and it’s optimistic that the friction tubes could have been used in one of Major Boons batteries.Any help with the map symbols appreciated.

Regards Zil

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

3 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

I think I have a possible for Major Boon. This document is from the August 1914 WD of the Commander RA 2 Div (TNA and Ancestry) and shows a Capt Boone as the Adjutant of 34 Brigade RFA. The 1914 WD of 34 Brigade RFA can be found under Various (Divisional Troops) - 2 Div - Piece 1324. 34 Brigade starts on p 140/521 and Cpt Boone is shown as being one of four Officers wounded in the period from 23/08/1914 to 29/09/1914. He was on the Retreat from Mons and The Aisne.

 

Thank you so much for tracking down Major Boone. This must surely be the man to whom my grandfather referred. There is a sad addendum, in that the CWGC website reveals that he was killed in action, aged 36, on 6 September 1917, and is buried at the Mendinghem Military Cemetery. CWGC have his unit as 94th Battery. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/436975/HENRY GRIFFITH BOONE/ RIP.

Should there ever be a second edition of my grandfather's diary I will ensure that I correct the spelling of his name, and that he takes his rightful place in the "Roll of Honour" at the back of the book.

I have also found the WD of D85. I am not a member of Ancestry, but have found it at the national Archives by searching "Royal Horse Artillery". I have not yet read the relevant passages, but thank you.

[brianmorris547]

Zil

Your map has a July 1916 look about it so I checked the WDs for 32 Div Commander RA and 32 Div HQ General Staff. The page at the start of the June 1916 WD for the CRA shows co ordinates for Battery positions in Squares Q 33, W 6, W 9, W 10, W 12 and W 18 (p 115/488). In the 32 Div HQ GS June 1916 WD there are maps which show these squares (p 648 and 649/691) around Aveluy Wood. There are other maps which show the wood in more detail.

Brian 

[ZIL]

Thanks Brian,

Thats really appreciated...I agree with the July 1916....I’ll certainly follow all your info up.It all adds to the friction tubes history.

Regards Zil

[brianmorris547]

Zil

From the list of positions in the WD of the 32 Div CRA (p 115/488) the Howitzer Batteries were D/161 at Q 33 d 9 4, D/164 at W 17 c 2 9 and D/155 at W 9 d 8 5. More info in the individual Unit WDs.

Brian

[ZIL]

Thanks again Brian , I have downloaded the sites you recommended...I agree superb detail.

I  am looking forward..when we can return...to walk the area.Have done some in that area but not with the detail that you have provided.

Regards Zil

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

11 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

I can not find Major Boon in any Battery or the Battery /Brigade Ammunition Columns. D/85 was loaned to 51 Div at the time so Major Boon may have been in that Division.

 

I apologise if I may run the risk of hi-jacking the thread again, but it looks as though Zil may have found what he was looking for. Meanwhile, having looked at what I had downloaded from NA I find that I was initially on the wrong track, but I have now found RFA 85th Brigade D Section. I agree that there seems to be no mention of Major Boone as an officer with them, but on 31 July 1915 there is this entry: "Major reconnoitred and decided on battery position near Martinsart", so definitely in the right area.

As I have said, my grandfather mentions Major Boone about 4 times, so I feel that he must also have been in the area. Their initial contact on 12 August 1915 was because my grandfather was Signals Officer and Major Boone was consulting him about telephone wires; there is reference in D85's WD to trouble with telephone communication on 18 August and a new telephone line being laid on 28 August, which would fit, though nothing specifically on 12 August.

According to D85's WD, on 29 July 1915, when D85 was attached to the 51st Division, it was also "attached to 1/3 Highland Howitzer Brigade RFA", and, as Brian says, it may be that Major Boone was with that Brigade. I have had a look at the 51st Division's CRA WD, but again there is no reference to Major Boone, so far as I can see. There is a list of officers in the Divisional Artillery at the time when it first went to France in May 1915,which does not include Major Boone, but changes in personnel do not seem to be charted, so maybe he joined later.

1 hour ago, ZIL said:

Thanks again Brian , I have downloaded the sites you recommended...I agree superb detail.

 

Zil, as I say, it looks as though you now have what you were looking for in much more detail than I could offer, but I have now noted from one of the other references to Major Boone that his gun emplacement near the cemetery is stated by my grandfather to have been on the east side of the road.

[ZIL]

Thank you..yes I have more detail  which is greatly appreciated.As before I have no firm location as to where in the area the tubes were found and you can speculate until the cows come home but It doesn’t  achieve anything.As said...the next time I’m in the area I can walk the walk with more confidence and more detail than I envisaged....

Regards Zil

[brianmorris547]

Zil

Compare the co ordinates of the Battery locations given in the WD of 32 Div CRA (p115/488) to your map.

D/164 shown as W 17 c 2 9 - marked on your map with a red triangle.

D/155 shown as W 9 d 8 5 - marked on your map with a red triangle.

A/161 shown as W 18 c 7 9 - marked on your map with a red circle.

C/161 shown as W 18 a 1 5 - marked on your map with a red circle and 

A/168 shown as W 12 c 8 0 - marked on your map with a red circle.

I could not see marks on your map for B/161 W 10 d 9 8 and C/168 W 10 a 5 5.

Other locations given for D/161 at Q 33 d 9 4 and B/164, C/164 and B 168 in W 3 are not on your map.

Brian

[ZIL]

Thanks again Brian...I will settle down and really concentrate on the excellent documents you have sourced.

It should be possible to put calibre to battery.I know that the tubes were only used on certain types.

Regards  Zil

[brianmorris547]

On 26/01/2021 at 06:16, ZIL said:

Thanks again Brian...I will settle down and really concentrate on the excellent documents you have sourced.

It should be possible to put calibre to battery.I know that the tubes were only used on certain types.

Regards  Zil

Zil

I'm reading the WDs of the Bolton Artillery again and have just noticed this re Major H G Boone DSO

WDs June 1917 42 Div CRA and 211 Brigade RFA appointed to D/211.

He is reported wounded on 05/09/1917 in the WD of 211 Bde and died the following day.

Brian

 

 

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

3 hours ago, brianmorris547 said:

I'm reading the WDs of the Bolton Artillery again and have just noticed this re Major H G Boone DSO

WDs June 1917 42 Div CRA and 211 Brigade RFA appointed to D/211.

He is reported wounded on 05/09/1917 in the WD of 211 Bde and died the following day.

I think that it was I who expressed an interest in Major Boone earlier in this thread. Thank you for the additional information Brian. My grandfather clearly had a great deal of respect for him. 

[brianmorris547]

2 hours ago, A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy said:

I think that it was I who expressed an interest in Major Boone earlier in this thread. Thank you for the additional information Brian. My grandfather clearly had a great deal of respect for him. 

So it was

Glad I could find a little more about him. 

Brian

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

@brianmorris547has also now drawn my intention to an entry in De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour concerning Major Henry Griffiths Boone DSO. In case anyone else comes across this thread who is interested in his background, it is worth posting a little more information here. He was born in India in 1880, and educated at Wellington College and the Royal Military Academy at Woolwich. He was gazetted as a 2nd Lieutenant in 1900, then served for 6 years with a Mountain Battery in India, including taking part in the Tibet Expedition of 1903-4. In 1907 he went to China to study the language, and qualified as an interpreter, following which he saw distinguished service during WW1, until his death on 6 September 1917 at Proven. He was married with two sons. It is poignant to note that the younger son, also Henry, was born on the very day that his father died.