Basil Rathbone

[bobpike]

In the latest edition of WFA's Bulletin there is a letter that the actor Basil Rathbone (famed as Sherlock Holmes) lost a younger brother in the war. Can anyone identify him, please?

[Stephen Nulty]

Bob

His younger brother was John Rathbone, but I'm afraid that's as much as I can tell you.

SN

[bobpike]

StepHen,

Thank you, a start, at least!

Bob

[Stephen Nulty]

Bob

I think it might be this man.

Name: RATHBONE

Initials: J E V

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Captain

Regiment: Dorsetshire Regiment

Unit Text: 3rd Bn. attd. 1st Bn.

Age: 20

Date of Death: 04/06/1918

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: II. B. 8.

Cemetery: BERLES NEW MILITARY CEMETERY

This is based on looking at the 1901 census and finding the father of Basil Rathbone, Edgar Philip Rathbone, living as a boarder at the home of Susanah Kitchingman in Hampstead. Also with E P Rathbone is his son, John E V Rathbone, aged 3 and born in Norwood, Surrey.

I know Basil Rathbone was born in South Africa and came to the UK at an early age, but I don't know exactly when this was.

So still not 100%, but not far off.

SN

[Stephen Nulty]

Bob

Yes, it's definitely him.

I just found that Basil Rathbone is actually Philip St John Basil Rathbone, and the address in Hampstead also has one Philip J B Rathbone, aged 8.

So that's yer man.

SN

http://www.sherlock-holmes.org.uk/Media/Ci...il_Rathbone.htm

[bobpike]

Stephen,

Thank you, much obliged,

Bob

[BeppoSapone]

Captain Basil Rathbone was, at one stage, the Intelligence Officer for the 2nd Liverpool Scottish.

The death in WW1 of his younger brother John is thought to be the main reason that long term American resident Rathbone remained a British subject.

http://www.basilrathbone.net/biography/

[Stephen Nulty]

Hey Tony

His father, Edgar, was a Liverpool man, so I wonder if that's the reason for the Liverpool Scottish connection.

SN

[BeppoSapone]

Hey Tony

His father, Edgar, was a Liverpool man, so I wonder if that's the reason for the Liverpool Scottish connection.

SN

Probably Steven. It's not what you know it's who you know

With their family background I expect that they had had officers of the Liverpool Scottish to dinner.

[Blueblood]

Bob,

Captain John Ernest Vivian Rathbone was Basil Rathbone's younger brother. There is a photo of him on page 287 of 'The Bravest of Hearts' book by Hal Giblin.

Basil originally had joined the London Scottish and transferred to the Liverpool Scottish probably because his father was originally from Liverpool.

www.liverpoolscottish.org.uk

This website will have more info on the Rathbone's and on how to buy the book.

Blueblood (Phil)

[bobpike]

Phil,

Many thanks, a site I'll explore & the book sounds very interesting,

Bob

[Marc Thompson]

On the subject of Sherlock Holmes you may also be interested in:

Captain Arthur Alleyne Kingsley Conan DOYLE

1st Bn. Hampshire Regiment

Son of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Lady Conan Doyle, of Windlesham, Crowborough, Sussex.

A.A.K.C. Doyle commenced a course of medical study at St Mary's Hospital Medical School in October 1911, and was registered as a medical student in that month. Worked at the Medical School and Hospital from October 1911 until August 1914, when he joined the Army, aged 19 years.

Formerly Driver 1145, 1/1st City of London Field Ambulance, RAMC stationed at Malta. Discharged to commission March 1915. Posted 1st Bn. Hampshire Regiment. Joined Battalion April 1916. Wounded in action (GSW back) on the Somme 1 July 1916 with 1st Hants. Rejoined 1st Hants in January 1917. Acting Captain 20/07/1917. Resigned temporary commission to resume medical studies December 1917. Died in London of influenza 01/11/1918 Age 24 years

Grave/Memorial Reference: 23D. 191.

Cemetery: GRAYSHOTT (ST. LUKE) CHURCHYARD, UK

[Blueblood]

Marc,

Didn't Conan Doyle write a poem dedicated to his son?

I think one or two lines went something like "....and when they ask you why we died, tell them because our father's lied."

Or something along those lines.

Someone more learned than me may regale us with the exact poem.

Blueblood (phil)

[BeppoSapone]

Didn't Conan Doyle write a poem dedicated to his son?

I think one or two lines went something like "....and when they ask you why we died, tell them because our father's lied."

Actually Phil it was Rudyard Kipling.

"If any question why we died,

Tell them, because our fathers lied.

Niall Ferguson says that this was literal in the case of Kipling who had lied in order that his son might join the army. A search of the forum will, no doubt, bring up something on Kipling's son who was in the Irish Guards.

See here:

http://www.ku.edu/carrie/archives/wwi-l/20...7/msg00034.html

[Blueblood]

Beppo,

Wrong man but right job (both were writers) although was Kipling the man that made the cakes? (Bad joke sorry).

Anyway it was a rather thought provoking poem.

Thanks for putting me right.

Does anyone know how many famous people were casualties or had family members killed or wounded during the war?

Blueblood (phil)

[Ciaran Byrne]

Age 20 seems a very young age to attain the rank of captain. Was this normal??

[PhilB]

Sherlock Holmes (Who Basil Rathbone really was!) was born in 1854, making him 60 in 1914. I can`t imagine the nation could have won the war without his help. He must be "in there" somewhere! I`ll look out for his medals on ebay. If anyone sees medals named to William Sherlock Scott Holmes, do contact me! Phil B

[bobpike]

Phil,

Of course, you're right, Holmes did help win the war. Here is the preface from 'His Last Bow,'

The friends of Mr. Sherlock Holmes will be glad to learn that he is still alive and well, though somewhat crippled by occasional attacks of rheumatism. He has, for many years, lived in a small farm upon the downs five miles from Eastbourne, where his time is divided between philosophy and agriculture. During this period of rest he has refused the most princely offers to take up various cases, having determined that his retirement was a permanent one. The approach of the German war caused him however, to lay his remarkable combination of intellectual and practical activity at the disposal of the government, with historical results which are recounted in His Last Bow. Several previous experiences which have lain long in my portfolio have been added to His Last Bow so as to complete the volume.

[PhilB]

Thanks, Bob. Any idea what his WW1 services are alleged to be? Phil B

[bobpike]

Phil,

Here we are ;-

"Sherlock Holmes: His Last Bow" takes us to the beginnings of World War One and opens with the clandestined meeting between agents of the German Empire -- one a sleeper who has established himself in England for the purpose of gathering military intelligence, one the chief secretary of the legation, here to collect that intelligence that will lead to the invasion and overthrow of England. These are details which will compromise civil defense, British weapons, coastal defenses, and military forces. The impending meeting with an anti-British American of Irish descent shall complete their plans for a successful invasion of the British Isles that will help bring the free world under German domination. This topical, suspenseful story is one of the most intense Holmes stories written by the master, A. Conan Doyle, and will have the listener holding their breath for the startling conclusion.

[PhilB]

Sounds like he might even have needed Mycroft`s assistance on that one, plus, of course, Dr Watson. Phil B

[Simon_Fielding]

The death of Conan Doyle's son triggered his fasciantion with spiritualism, even to the extent of believing in the Cottingley Fairies. The film 'Fairy Tale' covers this well, and has some atmospheric scenes of the young girls on a train with wounded Tommies.