Canteen soldier Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 Any help on this would be very much appreciated. He is Army Service Corps - but why have and what is the second brassard? It was taken in Egypt at a Cairo studio in I believe 1918. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggoner Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 It is curious that he is wearing the same shoulder title in different sizes. Do you have any other information about the soldier that might help to explain this? A misinterpretation of the regulations or “belt and braces” ? All the best, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 (edited) It's RFC Royal Flying Corps ASC attached to RFC I've not seen this set up before Chris Edited 9 December , 2020 by Dragoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canteen soldier Posted 9 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 December , 2020 That's the problem making out the 3 letters - is it another ASC or an RFC or something else. To me it looks like REC with the E being elaborate script. He was a Staff Sgt, Canteens Section of the ASC and I have never seen this anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 (edited) good morning, the title above ASC is EFC for Expeditionary Force Canteens. here is an EFC coming from the field (St Omer area) and a photo I colored. regards michel Edited 9 December , 2020 by battle of loos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 18 minutes ago, battle of loos said: good morning, the title above ASC is EFC for Expeditionary Force Canteens. here is an EFC coming from the field (St Omer area) and a photo I colored. regards michel Good spot Michel EFC it is Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggoner Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 The fact he was serving with the EFC clinches it. Kudos to Michael. I wonder if the practice of wearing the double titles was common? All the best, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 good morning, I've already seen pictures of ASC with MT (Mechanical Transport) above michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggoner Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 Michel, noted! I was aware of the MT ones but was thinking more of the EFC ones. Off hand, I can’t think of any other ones that would have been worn? Unfortunately, not a great deal is known about the EFC. They seem to have operated in the shadow of the transport side of the ASC. All the best, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canteen soldier Posted 9 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 December , 2020 Thank you for all opinions and I agree it appears to be EFC. My query was because a couple of things mitigated against that. The EFC Brassards first appeared in 1915 with the EFC cap badge. In early 1916 when they were rebadged ASC a hybrid period existed with ASC caps and EFC brassards. By 1917 it was ASC badge and brassard or no brassard at all. However in late 1917 EFC as an organisation (not the personnel) was replaced in Egypt, Malta and Mesopotamia by the NACB although I am not aware of any NACB shoulder title. Given the date and location I now think it likely it is a personal affectation of the soldier involved and not the standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggoner Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 You referred to an EFC cap badge? I don’t recall having seen one. Do you have an image you can share? All the best, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Waggoner said: You referred to an EFC cap badge? I don’t recall having seen one. Do you have an image you can share? All the best, Gary Other ranks brass, Gary, and OSD bronze for officers. Image imperial war museum. Edited 9 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggoner Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 Frogsmile, Thank you. I have seen this badge but isn’t it for the later Navy and Army Canteen Board? I thought that Canteen soldier had referred to one for the EFC before they adopted the ASC badge? Was there one? Which reminds me, I need find a NACB badge for the collection...an an EFC shoulder title. All the best, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 December , 2020 Share Posted 9 December , 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Waggoner said: Frogsmile, Thank you. I have seen this badge but isn’t it for the later Navy and Army Canteen Board? I thought that Canteen soldier had referred to one for the EFC before they adopted the ASC badge? Was there one? Which reminds me, I need find a NACB badge for the collection...an an EFC shoulder title. All the best, Gary I think the NACB was set up in 1917, I’m not sure if there was a special badge before that date, but I will check. Afternote: It seems (and makes sense too) that the [edit] EFC came under and wore the cap badge of the ASC, but with EFC shoulder title. This chimes with the OP’s photo. Edited 10 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canteen soldier Posted 10 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 10 December , 2020 Thank you everyone for the input and I think that my original question is resolved. I have been researching the EFC for some time now and am hoping to publish a small work on them. The NACB was not per se a uniformed organisation, they formed to served the canteen needs of the army at home in a civilian capacity something the EFC never did or was allowed to do. However in a few locations - the personnel provided were badged ASC and later RASC. It allowed the winding down of the EFC which involved taking considerable losses on disposing of its stocks and equipment. It was thus in part an accounting solution and quite transitory allowing the formation of Naafi in 1920 unencumbered by those costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 December , 2020 Share Posted 10 December , 2020 (edited) It will be interesting to see the history drawn together. Do bear in mind that the insignia on the shoulder strap is generally called a shoulder title, whereas a brassard was/is a cloth arm band worn midway on the upper arm. Edited 10 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canteen soldier Posted 10 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 10 December , 2020 Frogsmile - I really was not aware of that distinction and am grateful for the correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 10 December , 2020 Share Posted 10 December , 2020 15 hours ago, Waggoner said: You referred to an EFC cap badge? I don’t recall having seen one. Do you have an image you can share? All the best, Gary Gary, the first cap badge was a monogram of the letters EFC. The badge is shown on page 111 of the book "Badges of the Empire's Waggoners". Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 December , 2020 Share Posted 10 December , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Canteen soldier said: Frogsmile - I really was not aware of that distinction and am grateful for the correction. I’m glad to help and recommend that before you publish you get someone with some British military knowledge of that period to read through the draft to check for terminology, it should avoid any pitfalls that might confuse readers. I enclose an image of the cap badge mentioned by Pete above (notice slider at back for inserting into the front of the cap), along with a shoulder title above it. Edited 10 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggoner Posted 10 December , 2020 Share Posted 10 December , 2020 Frogsmile, Thank you for the images! Most informative. Canteen soldier, Have you come across any references to how the prefixes to the service numbers were authorized? I collect medals to the ASC based on the prefixes to the service numbers. I have several examples of the different prefixes that were used but haven’t seen any documents that authorized their use. All the best, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 December , 2020 Share Posted 10 December , 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Waggoner said: Frogsmile, Thank you for the images! Most informative. Canteen soldier, Have you come across any references to how the prefixes to the service numbers were authorized? I collect medals to the ASC based on the prefixes to the service numbers. I have several examples of the different prefixes that were used but haven’t seen any documents that authorized their use. All the best, Gary Glad to help Gary, good to see you posting again, it's been a while since VWF. Edited 10 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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