10th RWF soldier

[Marts]

Hi

I'm Looking in to my grandfathers WW1 records and cant find that much.

32544 10th RWF Robert  J Salisbury.

 

He didn't talk much to me but. I remember him sitting in his arm chair smoking woodbines. He would sometimes start rubbing his at his left arm and neck and would pull small lumps of metal from the skin.

He was wounded up his left side (leg to head) I have a photo of him with a bandage around his leg.

 

I would very much like to find out more information about him. 

He was at the Somme, and did say he crawled back to the britsh lines in darkness and was followed by others from every crater hole he passed.   

  

Thanks

Edited 4 December , 2020 by Marts

[m0rris]

Hi Marts

 

You can download the 10th RWF diary for free from the TNS: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352096

 

Will

[Marts]

Thanks just done it !

[Hywyn]

Hi Marts

 

I've looked for the usual available records for 32544 Robert J Salisbury, RWF and can't find anything, not even a medal card. A printed version of the 10th Bn RWF diary provides casualty lists by name/number and no one of that name or number appears on them.

 

Where was he from?

There was a Robert John Salisbury RWF 15565 from Boot, Bagillt who served for a month in 1914 and a Robert Salisbury RWF 17600 from Colwyn Bay who served with 13th Bn

Edited 4 December , 2020 by Hywyn

[Hywyn]

Found him now. He's the Bagillt one who enlists again on 13 7 1915 as 32544.

 

From the records I've seen his service was wholly UK based I'm afraid.. Firstly with 12th Bn RWF then with a Training Brigade Bn then with Labour Corps (as 274927)

He did not receive any campaign medals.

 

Edited 4 December , 2020 by Hywyn

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

5 hours ago, Marts said:

I'm Looking in to my grandfathers WW1 records and cant find that much.

32544 10th RWF Robert  J Salisbury.

Do you have anything with both his name and his number on it?

[Marts]

Hi

 

His was from Bagillt, and that is his MR, but some of the details are for a J W Salisbury, two records have been mixed up.

Attached is part of the record

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Can you post a link to the other man's records so we can study them?

[Marts]

Some more info

He was born on the 19th or 20th of December about 1894 (I think it was)so the age is right.
The street on the enlist frrm sound's correct (my mum said she visited his dad in that street after the war) but there are a few things in the forms that don't match up.

He enlisted in north Wales and he worked with the ponies down the pit (Teamster) but if you look you see he was single.

Then there are things that don't ring true.

On one of the other forms he has married and had a son then the wife died.

None of that was known about him and doesn't sound right.

 

He did say he fought next to/with a group of Ghurkhas but where I don't know.

I remember him saying one of them became a good friend.

 

He was defiantly wounded, as I remember watching him sitting in his chair rubbing his left arm and the left side of his head and would pull small lumps of metal from under his skin

They took 60 years to get to the top layers of his skin

 

I have a photo of him in uniform with his bandaged leg next to my grandmother. possibly 1917 early 18

We think they met during the war (possibly when he had been wounded) and then married straight after the war in 1919.

She told me she didn't recognise him when he came back and she made him bath in the yard outside before she would let him in the house.

She cut off the buttons etc from his uniform and burnt it. (lice)

She gave the buttons & badges to me when I was a lad (far too young to understand & I don't have them anymore)

 

A war pension man came round to him after he was widowed (early 1980's) and asked him to come to Chelsea.

He told them to ****** off as he had spent 60 years trying to forget the war, why would he want to live there and re-live it every day. 

 

I don't see the man I knew would fabricate not being in France & the story of having to bath him well that speaks volumes.

 

Martin

 

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

As I said -Can you post a link to the other man's records so we can study them?

There are many Salisburys, and if you want us to study a set, then post the link so we don't all have to battle Ancestry's indexing to find the right set.

[Hywyn]

Martin I see where you get the 10th Bn now.

I've had another look at the records and cannot see him posted overseas at all. When he enlists in July 1915 (as 32544) he declares having previous service. He also indicates he's prepared to serve  'Home' Service (Q9). At the bottom of the attestation the Approving Officer approves him for RWF Home Service

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/30600_192134-00130?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=2964761b07106ffa22a42ef63d443dac&usePUB=true&_phsrc=a63495977&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=1757965

He went to 12th Bn then in September 1916 when the Training reorganisation took place he went to 62 Bn Training Reserve and afterwards he went to labour Corps (UK based units)

 

His previous service was as 15565 RWF from 21 9 1914 to 24 10 1914. Although the Statement of Service only shows D for Depot the Medical History sheet shows authorisation for discharge by the Capt/Adjutant 10th Bn.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1114/images/MIUK1914A_086672-00287?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=b05c46d3e02e05482f9e343f360e7c52&usePUB=true&_phsrc=a63-1112030&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=613021

When the Statement as to Disability (posted by you above) was compiled it looks as if it's in error about the previous service bit. It has mixed up the two previous service.

 

I don't doubt your family lore regarding. It may be that this Robert John Salisbury is not your grandfather.

 

The photo you have of him in uniform, does he have a cap badge showing. Can you post it there might be some clues there.

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Thanks for the link Hywyn.

If you scroll back from that First page, it seems that records begin several pages earlier for RJ Salisbury 274927.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/30600_192134-00119?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=2964761b07106ffa22a42ef63d443dac&usePUB=true&_phsrc=a63495977&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=1757965

 

In these pages there are references to different RWF service numbers -20030 62 Training Battalion, (crossed out and replaced by) 49992.

There is a death of a wife, Edith Louisa in childbirth, in Prescot.

Do any of these details fit?

[Marts]

The previous marriage does not ring true

He lived in north Wales and Worcester

Mistaken about the R W Salisbury (listed as next of kin on some records) unknown to us 

 

There are parts that look right and others not. Home address at enlistment looks correct though

No cap badge on photo

 

There was mention of him being made sergeant on the field

 

 

Edited 7 December , 2020 by Marts

[m0rris]

It was a John Robert Salisbury who married Edith Fairclough in Liverpool 1916 - parents of RW Salisbury.

Edited 7 December , 2020 by m0rris

[Marts]

I know nothing regarding this marriage ! or offspring.

 

He married my Grandmother in 1919 I think. She was Florence Mary Davies, in north Wales

 

Edited 7 December , 2020 by Marts

[m0rris]

Actually I'm skimming through someone else's family tree on Ancestry and even they've got it muddled up! They have him as RJ and JR..

Edited 7 December , 2020 by m0rris

[Hywyn]

 

There is a family tree on ancestry for a Robert William Salisbury born 11 9 1917 Prescott District. Highly likely to be this R W Salisbury given the military records have a Death Certificate showing Edith died in childbirth at Prescott District on 12 9 1917. The tree shows father and mother unknown.

 

1939 Register has Robert John Salisbury born Dec 20th 1896 at 13 Glanrafon, Abergele. Wife is Florence.

There is a marriage at Holywell District in Sept Qtr 1919 of a Robert J Salisbury and Florence Davies. GRO Reference is Holywell District Sept Qtr 1919 Vol 11b page 451

Accepting these are your grandparents then I see the only way forward at the moment is for you to obtain the marriage certificate and see what it says about his status i.e single/widowed etc.

 

Might the wounds be WW2?

Edited 7 December , 2020 by Hywyn

[Hywyn]

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page 

Marriages Sep 1919   (>99%)

Davies Florence Salisbury Holywell 11b451  

Jones Collister L Roberts Holywell 11b451  

Roberts Sarah A Jones Holywell 11b451  

Salisbury Robert J Davies Holywell 11b451  

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

What of the numbers 49992 and 20030 Hywyn?

[Marts]

Yes that him. They lived at number 13 for years. Her mother and father were at number 27

 

No in WW2 he was in the Home Guards.

 

He was from Holywell, Bagillt

[Hywyn]

20030 is TR/4/20030 which is the number allocated when he went to 62nd Training Bn, Training Reserve. Basically the 12th Bn RWF was redesignated as 62nd Bn Training Reserve on 1 9 1916.

 

49992 does not show as allocated to anyone in RWF. If he did hold that number as a RWF man then the scenario would be posted back to RWF at some stage as 49992 and then afterwards to Labour Corps. The posting is not showing in the available records though but I haven't minutely examined each sheet so it could be there somewhere.

[Hywyn]

Thanks Martin

 

All told then we seem to be stuck in positively showing a link between him and the RJS in the military documents. As I say the Marriage Certificate might strengthen the link e.g Status/Father's name/maybe an address in Bagillt. Given there's no Robert John or Robert J showing in medal rolls for overseas service I'd say this is your way forward.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

22 minutes ago, Hywyn said:

1939 Register has Robert John Salisbury born Dec 20th 1896

That tallies with the birth registration in the GRO records.

 

Births Mar 1897   (>99%)

Salisbury Robert John
 Holywell 11b212  

 

This appears to be the only Robert J Salisbury birth in England & Wales, in the1890s.

 

However in the July 1915 attestation form, 274927 states he is 19 and 7 months, claiming a December 1895 birth.

Yet he is only agreeing to sign up for home service.

Edited 7 December , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Marts]

Thanks guys

 

Looks like a leap of faith will be required at some stage.

I will look at the marriage cert and see what it can tell me.

 

Cheers Martin

[m0rris]

It may well be worth posting a picture to see if he has RWF buttons or a wound stripe etc. In my case there have been tiny details that you just don't spot until an expert points them out.