Stevejm Posted 28 November , 2020 Share Posted 28 November , 2020 (edited) i found the attached photo in the family photo collection. it shows my great grandmother's brother Samuel Chatwood second from right back row who served with the 10th Cameronians from September 1914 until he was killed in action at Loos on 25 September 1915. i thought that the photo was very unusual in that it shows officers, NCOs and privates in a small group. In an attempt to find an explanation for the photo I read through the War Diary and found mention that Captain Renwick lead a billeting party ahead of the main group soon after arrival in France so it occurred to me that this may be a photo of this group. Any other ideas? Edited 28 November , 2020 by Stevejm error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 28 November , 2020 Admin Share Posted 28 November , 2020 Welcome to the forum. CWGC shows that Samuel was in A Company 10th Cameronians , there was no Caledonians. I’m not sure if the photo is in France, might be before they went over. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 28 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2020 2 minutes ago, Michelle Young said: Welcome to the forum. CWGC shows that Samuel was in A Company 10th Cameronians , there was no Caledonians. I’m not sure if the photo is in France, might be before they went over. Michelle Thanks for the reply. My mistake! Sorry! i know its the Cameronians but for some reason typed Caledonians. i believe it is taken in France because they are wearing boots which the WD mentions were issued to the men just prior to embarkation on the troop ship in England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 28 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2020 1 minute ago, Stevejm said: Thanks for the reply. My mistake! Sorry! i know its the Cameronians but for some reason typed Caledonians. i believe it is taken in France because they are wearing boots which the WD mentions were issued to the men just prior to embarkation on the troop ship in England I have edited the post to avoid confusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 28 November , 2020 Admin Share Posted 28 November , 2020 My predictive text always types Cameroonians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 28 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2020 I got the first two letters right but I can’t use predictive text as an excuse.😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 November , 2020 Share Posted 28 November , 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Stevejm said: Thanks for the reply. My mistake! Sorry! i know its the Cameronians but for some reason typed Caledonians. i believe it is taken in France because they are wearing boots which the WD mentions were issued to the men just prior to embarkation on the troop ship in England Steve, it can’t be taken in France, as they’re dressed pristinely, unarmed, without equipment, and carrying swagger sticks for walking-out of barracks. There are also three officers in the front row, one in Douglas tartan trews not usually worn in the trenches, and a rather elderly colour sergeant seated far left. It has all the hallmarks of a photo taken ‘at home’ (in Britain). They also have not yet been provided with black, rifles pattern buttons, although it did take time for these to be provided for some battalions early in the war. NB. The most likely location for such a small group of mixed ranks is when the battalion was dispersed into winter billets at Winchester in February 1915. Edited 28 November , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 30 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2020 Another photo of Sam \another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 November , 2020 Share Posted 30 November , 2020 (edited) A typical mix of dress from early in the war. The trousers don’t match the jacket and the waist belt is from the obsolete Slade-Wallace pattern equipment set. His journey was a very short one. Loos was such a tragic action and his innocent gaze at the camera seems so poignant. Edited 30 November , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 30 November , 2020 Admin Share Posted 30 November , 2020 Such a young lad. Only in France from 11th July. As and when we can get back to the battlefiedls, I will visit Samuel for you. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 30 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2020 8 minutes ago, Michelle Young said: Such a young lad. Only in France from 11th July. As and when we can get back to the battlefiedls, I will visit Samuel for you. Michelle That’s nice. Thank you. He was a mill worker in Lancashire. Apparently the Cameronians recruited a lot of young men from Lancs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 30 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2020 2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: A typical mix of dress from early in the war. The trousers don’t match the jacket and the waist belt is from obsolete Slade-Wallace pattern equipment set. His journey was a very short one. Loos was such a tragic action and his innocent gaze at the camera seems so poignant. I wondered about the non matching trousers. Both this and the group photo have post card imprints on the back. Was that typical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 November , 2020 Share Posted 30 November , 2020 1 minute ago, Stevejm said: I wondered about the non matching trousers. Both this and the group photo have post card imprints on the back. Was that typical? Yes, the vast majority of photographic studios of that time (both in Britain and on the continent) imprinted all their developed images on a postcard template. It was extremely popular for individuals to send photos of themselves as postcards, often along with a message written explaining the circumstances of the scene depicted. Rather like a modern selfie in social media....look at me and look at what I’m doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 30 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2020 6 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes, the vast majority of photographic studios of that time (both in Britain and on the continent) imprinted all their developed images on a postcard template. It was extremely popular for individuals to send photos of themselves as postcards, often along with a message written explaining the circumstances of the scene depicted. Rather like a modern selfie in social media....look at me and look at what I’m doing... That explains it. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 5 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 5 December , 2020 I thought this newspaper cutting was interesting. Sam Chatwoood was recruited in Lancashire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 December , 2020 Share Posted 5 December , 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Stevejm said: I thought this newspaper cutting was interesting. Sam Chatwoood was recruited in Lancashire It’s extremely interesting to me because it was written by a CQMS and it’s a deeply embedded British infantry tradition that in each company the CQMS is responsible for distributing goodies to the men of his company. Of course in normal routine this includes things like rations, hot soup, the rum ration, fresh bread, etc. and for celebrations he will also bring cakes and organise such things as beer. In addition he invariably runs a small stock of chocolate and cigarettes and on operations generally distributes donations from the public such as those sought in the newspaper article. It is still the case today. Let’s hope that the 10th Cameronian’s were successful with their plea. Edited 5 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 5 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 5 December , 2020 49 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: It’s extremely interesting to me because it was written by a CQMS and it’s a deeply embedded British infantry tradition that in each company the CQMS is responsible for distributing goodies to the lads of his company. Of course in normal routine this includes things like rations, hot soup, the rum ration, fresh bread, etc. and for celebrations he will also bring cakes and organise such things as beer. In addition he invariably runs a small stock of chocolate and cigarettes and on operations generally distributes donations from the public such as those sought in the newspaper article. It is still the case today. Let’s hope that the 10th Cameronian’s were successful with their plea. I am glad it was interesting. It was found by my 82 year old mother who is keeping very busy with family history research whilst isolating at home. Sadly Sam wouldn’t have benefited from any donations as he was KIA 7 days after the paper was published Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 13 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 December , 2020 Another interesting newspaper cutting found by Mum. A lucky man saved by the compassion of the enemy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 14 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2020 Sam Chatwood is commemorated on a panel at Loos cemetery. Does this mean that his body was never found or identified? The story passed down in the family was that his two friends who joined up with him looked for him but couldn’t find him. They both had his name tattooed on their arms in his memory. When his brother in law ( my great grandfather) heard about his fate he immediately volunteered despite having a wife and two children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 14 December , 2020 Admin Share Posted 14 December , 2020 Yes it does mean that, he might be one of the thousands of Known Unto God burials in the cemeteries around Loos. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 14 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2020 27 minutes ago, Michelle Young said: Yes it does mean that, he might be one of the thousands of Known Unto God burials in the cemeteries around Loos. Michelle Thanks Michelle. The story passed on to my mother by her grandmother was that his friends “couldn’t find any of his remains” which suggests that he was hit by a shell doesn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 14 December , 2020 Admin Share Posted 14 December , 2020 Or his body was buried but then blown up subsequently. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 14 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2020 9 minutes ago, Michelle Young said: Or his body was buried but then blown up subsequently. Michelle Perhaps but doesn’t his friends’ comment that they couldn’t find any of his remains suggest that they saw him hit and found nothing left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevejm Posted 5 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 January , 2021 in case anyone else has an interest in the 10th I found a history of the battalion penned by officers who survived the war which can be accessed for on line viewing via the following link https://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A67739 One of the staggering facts that I came across was that all officers of Sam Chatwood's company (A company) were KIA on the first day of Loos with the exception of one of the two captains ( Junior captains of each company were held back and didn't join the attack). The abovementioned book gives a good description of the training in UK and a more personal view of life in the battalion which isn't covered by the WD which starts on mobilization to France in July 1915 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 5 January , 2021 Share Posted 5 January , 2021 Your relatives battalion feature in one of the most reproduced images of the war, from 1917. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/10th-scottish-rifles-trench-raid-and-an-oft-used-photograph/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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