The Middlesex Regiment Labour Corp

[Dublon]

My Grandfather was a German Jew who came to Britain in 1900 leaving his family in Hamburg. He gained his Nationalisation papers and then  joined the Middlesex Regiment around the start of the Great War, He became a private in the The labour Corp. His name was Herbert Dublon and I trying to establish just what and where he served. 

[Myrtle]

Your grandfather was in the 6th Infantry Labour Company, Middlesex Regiment.   Initially those men who were regarded as aliens, including British born sons of Germans etc were put into the 30th and 31st  Battalions of the  Middlesex Regiment formed from June 1916.  Their nickname was  the “Kaiser’s Own”.  
The 6th ILC was formed in 1918. 
 

Edited 27 November , 2020 by Myrtle

[sotonmate]

Dublon

 

Welcome to the Forum !

Your GF has a medal roll entry and received both British War and Victory Medals.  There he is shown as serving 6th Infantry Labour Company. The Long Long Trail here at top left has a little information on the Middlesex Regiment and shows 6ILC as being a part of XXII Corps in France around Jun 1918, and in the same month moving to 4th Army.

 

Edited 27 November , 2020 by sotonmate
Welcome !

[Myrtle]

The only 6th ILC man listed as having died overseas was Eric C.R. Quitmann - G/ 84289. He died 16.06.1918 and was buried in Sainte- Riquier British Cemetery in the Somme area, east of Abbeville. As the men in these Companies didn’t carry arms the few that died were usually buried near to where they were serving at the time. 

Edited 28 November , 2020 by Myrtle
Additional information

[Dublon]

On 27/11/2020 at 20:36, Myrtle said:

Your grandfather was in the 6th Infantry Labour Company, Middlesex Regiment.   Initially those men who were regarded as aliens, including British born sons of Germans etc were put into the 30th and 31st  Battalions of the  Middlesex Regiment formed from June 1916.  Their nickname was  the “Kaiser’s Own”.  
The 6th ILC was formed in 1918. 
 

 

[Dublon]

Thank you so much for your information. I have assumed he probably found himself in France. My Grandfather came home safely after the Great War and lived for a further 13 years.

Again my sincere thanks

[Myrtle]

3 hours ago, Dublon said:

Thank you so much for your information. I have assumed he probably found himself in France. My Grandfather came home safely after the Great War and lived for a further 13 years.

Again my sincere thanks

Dublon

It’s a pleasure to help. I am interested to know whereabouts in the country your grandfather lived when he joined up ? 

 

[Dublon]

2 hours ago, Myrtle said:

Dublon

It’s a pleasure to help. I am interested to know whereabouts in the country your grandfather lived when he joined up ? 

 

Thank you again for your helpful information. My Grandfather Herbert Dublon was Jewish and lived in London

 

 

[themonsstar]

6 Alien Coy (Middlesex Regiment) Labour Corps

 

21 Apr 18	Arrived France 5 officers & 491 ORs
24 Apr 18	5 (Alien) & 6 (Alien) Coy – tos CONTEVUILLE form BUSE – railways – 3rd Army Diary
6 May 18	6 (Alien) Coy – sos CONTEVILLE (railways) to 4th Army – 3rd Army Diary
26 Sep 18	6 (Alien) Coy - sos to Australian Corps to work on railways even though their employment is within 16 km of the line. – III Corps Diary
28 Sep 18	6 (Alien) Coy – tos – ANZAC Corps Diary
29 Sep 18	6 (Alien) Coy and 12 & 14 Coys – sos to IX Corps – ANZAC Corps Diary
29 Sep 18	6 (Alien) Coy – move from 57D(SE)/F.30.a. to MARTEVILLE (62C/X.2.b.4.4) – IX Corps Diary
28 Nov 18	Tos DOMPIERRE from 4th Army – 3rd Army Diary
14 Mar 19	3rd Army request permission to retain 5 & 6 Alien and 1021 Russian Coys AG letter – ‘the use of LC personnel on Employments is contrary to Labour principles and fighting troops should be used’ – GHQ Diary

[FROGSMILE]

Should that latter “Employments” be emplacements, otherwise it doesn’t make sense. I think it’s a typo.  Employment companies were a well established part of the Labour Corps so roles of that description certainly weren’t prescribed for fighting troops only.

Edited 2 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[themonsstar]

I'm not sure the original word document ( word 97) was typed up in 2003

[FROGSMILE]

23 minutes ago, themonsstar said:

I'm not sure the original word document ( word 97) was typed up in 2003

I understand, but just for reference I think it’s far more likely to mean emplacements.  The labour for constructing emplacements was the responsibility of RE, infantry work parties and, especially, pioneer battalions, all of which constitute ‘fighting troops’.  There was sometimes confusion among untutored staff officers about the differences in the employment of pioneers and labour corps.  The Corps instruction was an attempt to clarify this I think.

Edited 2 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Myrtle]

On 30/11/2020 at 16:06, Dublon said:

 

 

Thank you Dublon 

[themonsstar]

This was still a problem in the 1980s and 90s with Pioneer Labour Support and the way units employed us.

Edited 2 December , 2020 by themonsstar

[Dublon]

On 30/11/2020 at 13:58, Myrtle said:

Dublon

It’s a pleasure to help. I am interested to know whereabouts in the country your grandfather lived when he joined up ? 

 

 

Thank you all for your so helpful information - it is much appreciated

 

David Dublon

[FROGSMILE]

On 02/12/2020 at 21:23, themonsstar said:

This was still a problem in the 1980s and 90s with Pioneer Labour Support and the way units employed us.

Yes, I worked for the RPC Directorate for a short time in the early 90s and recall that clearly.  At the time the Directorate RPC was preparing for its merger into the new, RLC and was being asked by the putative new corps HQ (then setting up) for the latest doctrinal concern, pan-Army written Job Descriptions and Training Specifications, in our case for the Pioneer soldier and NCO.  Of course there weren’t any, and I was tasked with writing them from scratch using historical precedents.  Interestingly the outcome was a sort of hybrid role that during WW1 had been covered by pioneer battalions, RE pioneers, and labour corps.  It was an interesting exercise.  Sadly the pioneer role never sat entirely comfortably within the RLC because its training requirements were outside what was deemed as the norm, and not many years ago the entire function was given up by the RLC as part of so-called rationalisation and compensatory reduction.  I understand that they are much missed by the rest of the field army.

Edited 12 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[themonsstar]

Lot of officers and other ranks at the time could never understand why or how the Pioneers  amalgamated into the New RLC. A good choice to put the logistical chain of the British Army under one Cap badge, but my own opinion was Pioneers did not fit into this new role, and we've picked up a lot of new specialist roles before the amalgamation, and it felt we've gone back to digging latrines and putting up tents, which we had moved away from.

But being in the RLC gave us quite a lot of new opportunities.

It was a shame that the Chain of Command thought they didn't need a Labouring Corps within the British Army I believe time has proven over and over again there is a role within the British Army for this type of task.

 

Ex Pioneer and proud of it.

 

 

 

 

Edited 5 December , 2020 by themonsstar

[FROGSMILE]

On 05/12/2020 at 11:54, themonsstar said:

Lot of officers and other ranks at the time could never understand why or how the Pioneers  amalgamated into the New RLC. A good choice to put the logistical chain of the British Army under one Cap badge, but my own opinion was Pioneers did not fit into this new role, and we've picked up a lot of new specialist roles before the amalgamation, and it felt we've gone back to digging latrines and putting up tents, which we had moved away from.

But being in the RLC gave us quite a lot of new opportunities.

It was a shame that the Chain of Command thought they didn't need a Labouring Corps within the British Army I believe time has proven over and over again there is a role within the British Army for this type of task.

 

Ex Pioneer and proud of it.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I agree with you.  At the time of the proposed merger into the RLC, I took the opportunity of my position working for the directorate on the project concerned to write to Maj Gen Field, who was an RE officer directly connected with the RPC.  I politely reminded him of our close association in two world wars and asked if we could not merge with the RE, but although he wrote back a courteous and reasoned reply, it was really just to say that the RE could not absorb the RPC role because it would undermine their raison d’etre of providing professionally qualified and appropriately remunerated officers and NCOs for combat engineering and construction, and it was not their role to provide labour.  I did not know at the time about the period when they were obliged to have an unqualified ‘pioneer’ soldier grade within their corps structure in 1911, in order that their services would be less expensive to the army.  After WW1 the pioneer category was quickly air brushed out of their history and I think that in more recent times the RE’s attitude to pioneers was one best summarised as once bitten twice shy.  I have no doubt that if ever Britain and NI have to go to full scale war again a pioneer function will be reestablished.

 

NB.  I too was a pioneer for a few short years and have nothing but the very highest regard for them.

Edited 12 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[themonsstar]

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