Gary Samson Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 I've noticed a photocopy of the Battalion War Diary 2/6 Notts & Derby Regiment covering February 1917 to July 1918 for sale on eBay where the seller claims to have the original. This made me wonder about the status of battalion war diaries as public records. I assumed all the diaries that were not lost (for whatever reason) were automatically routed to the PRO for release to the public. Are there many still in private collections? Is there/should there be an obligation for individuals to pass battalion war diaries over to the National Archives for safekeeping? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John W Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 The war Diary as I remember was a triplicate form with one copy being retained by the unit. Many regiments, re typed their copy in the early 1920's so it could possibly be one of these. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 There was at least one carbon copy of every war diary; Adjutants were meant to hand them to the Base Records, but maybe this one pinched his? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 Gary, I am afraid this has opened a can of worms This is not the only war diary to recently appear on eBay, there was one the other week to the Mutton Lancers. If the seller claims to have an original then so be it, but I find it a coincidence that these War Diaries have started to appear since the PRO has allowed the use of digital cameras. This is one of the reasons why the PRO is thinking of making a charge on the use of such cameras. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 I suppose if we have opened a can of worms we could let a few more worms get out. Some of us, living in countries protected by the paternalism of Crown Copywrite, sometimes look wistfully at the American practice, which I understand to mean that public documents are more or less available without restriction after a time. In this case, no one would worry if cameras or copiers were used in a reasonable manner, and certainly, there would be little demand for copies on E-Bay. Of course, I exaggerate for emphasis. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 Assuming this is a digital impression of the original, is the seller and/ or Ebay acting in breach of the Trading Description laws, if there is an international cyber-equivalent of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 Kate There probably isnt any breach of the Trade Descriptions Act. Assuming the seller is genuine private individual, s/he is free to try and con the unsuspecting public. However if it could be proved the seller is only pretending to be a private seller then the Act could apply. It's a bit similar to the trawls of local newspaper adverts that our local trading standards people do about people pretending to be private sellers of cars - but you then spot four adverts with the same phone number but different cars for sale. I'm not sure what Ebay's legal position is but I think they are only acting as agents/advertisers/brokers between "members" which nicely excludes them as well. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 12 June , 2003 Share Posted 12 June , 2003 I don't think the seller is breaking any law if he was selling on an item copied at the PRO. At no time do I remember being told that I could not sell a copy of any document made at the PRO. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 15 June , 2003 Share Posted 15 June , 2003 Out of curiosity (and hopefully to ease my bafflement of copyright laws).... If I were to possess a photocopy of an entire war diary and then transcribe it word for word myself (to make it easier to read), then scan it page by page and put the whole thing onto a CD, would I be infringing on any laws if I was to sell it for my own personal gain? What if I didn't transcribe it ,and scanned the photocopied pages as they were and did the same? Would this be any different (legally)? Just curious... Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 15 June , 2003 Share Posted 15 June , 2003 Out of curiosity (and hopefully to ease my bafflement of copyright laws).... If I were to possess a photocopy of an entire war diary and then transcribe it word for word myself (to make it easier to read), then scan it page by page and put the whole thing onto a CD, would I be infringing on any laws if I was to sell it for my own personal gain? Yes - because you had copied an original document that was not your own intellectual property - i.e. it was the work of someone else. You could do this, of course, but the PRO/NA would expect some form of payment for the use of this material. Failure to seek permission or pay the copyright holder is an offence under law, and if it went to court could result in heavy financial punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 15 June , 2003 Share Posted 15 June , 2003 I don't think the seller is breaking any law if he was selling on an item copied at the PRO. At no time do I remember being told that I could not sell a copy of any document made at the PRO. Ian There is no problem in selling on copies of documents made at the PRO/NA - as long as you haven't re-copied them - that it where the copyright infringement takes place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 15 June , 2003 Share Posted 15 June , 2003 Paul, I see. But if someone were to take a digital impression of something and then download it, would this still be contravening the law? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 15 June , 2003 Share Posted 15 June , 2003 Hmm - not sure on that one. Depends what agreement had been arranged with the archive concerned re. copying it in this format in the first place. While the images would be your copyright, the data contained on them would, I believe, still belong to PRO/NA. That needs a professional opinion from an Internet copyright lawyer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 15 June , 2003 Share Posted 15 June , 2003 There is PRO guide to copyright at http://www.pro.gov.uk/about/copyright/copyright.pdf But you probably need to be a lawyer to know what it means .... Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 15 June , 2003 Share Posted 15 June , 2003 Interesting to see that the article in question on eBay did not sell Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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