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Detlef Muller


Bob Davies
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Hello  all, I am looking for a bit of help on this one please. I do not have permission from the owner of a post card to post it on here but I can say that the German soldier I am trying to research is pictured on a post card. The date is 4-4-1915 and the place is Nouart in France. The post mark says 33 Division. There is a number on his pickelhaube cover which is very blurred. It looks like 66. However that number does not fit with The 33rd Division. Are there lists of German soldiers in the 33rd Division anywhere? Any help is appreciated. Regards, Bob.  @The Prussian , @GreyC may be interested here?

Edited by Bob Davies
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Hi,

there are no long lists of Prussian soldiers from WWI unless dead or wounded. Not sorted by units like Kompanie, Bataillon, Regiment or above. All gone since April 1945.

there was the 66th Brigade as part of 33. Division, also IR 60.

Best,

GreyC

PS: Wouldn´t call it interest. More "call of duty" :rolleyes:

Edited by GreyC
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26 minutes ago, GreyC said:

there are no long lists of Prussian soldiers from WWI unless dead or wounded.

Thank you GreyC. Your 'call of duty' is appreciated. It is possible then that his helmet cover says 60 referring to him belonging to IR60, which I have found no reference to anywhere. IR 98 belonging to the 33 Division and IR 67 belonging to the 33 reserve division are the only ones I have come up with. Presuming it is the IR number they have on their helmet covers and not the Brigade number? Regards, Bob.

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Thanks GreyC, I did not see this site before. It reads to me that IR60 was with 33 Division until 1884 and after that date it was IR98. I get my information here, Regards, Bob. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/55620/55620-h/55620-h.htm

Edited by Bob Davies
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No worries there, it gives me more information, which has to be a good thing :-) Best wishes, Bob.

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We can talk all day long about this. As long as we can't see the picture in question, there's little use in this discussion. 33rd Infantry Division was engaged in that area. None of the infantry regiments with the number 66 (active, reserve and landwehr) were in that area early 1915.

And if the owner of the postcard isn't even willing to have the mystery solved, what's the point of even trying to search?

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Hello!

I´d say the same. I could have a look, if you would send me the photo by email, BUT, why should I start to work, if the owner don´t want to show it?

"Wash me, but don´t make me wet"...

Probably it´s a normal photo, which costs 1€ on a flea market. Why the secret behaviour? The person will be probably dead. 99% of the soldiers with a headgear and a uniform look the same to us now. I really don´t understand...

If you want to buy a car, but the seller won´t show it to you... would you buy?:unsure:

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Hello, yes I see your points, I am waiting for a reply from the owner. For my own curiosity I am looking and asking these questions. Regards, Bob.

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Hello!

I understand the reason. Often I do the same. With everything I start a research, I learn a little bit more. But if the owner won´t help?

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I hope they do, it would be worth their while to find out more about their Great Grandfather as that is who is on the postcard.

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Hello all, this is the post card of the German soldier that his great grand children are looking for information about. His name is Detlef Muller, (there is an umlaut over the letter u) born 1885 or earlier. Residence before the Great war was Zweedorf near to Boizenburg in Germany. If anyone can shed any light it is appreciated. With thanks for any help, Bob.

Detlef Muller-003.jpg

Detlef Muller-004.jpg

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Hi,

on this postcard to his daughter Detlef Müller writes to his daughter on Easter that he was in Church, which was neat in the inside. He hopes to be back soon and says "Hi" to everybody at home.

The stamp indicates that he was at that time part of the Rekruten-Depot of the 33rd division in the back area of the front, at a place called Nouart, population TODAY of 177, situated in the Ardennes, Region Grand Est (pre 2016 Champagne-Ardenne). It belongs to Arrondissement VouziersKanton Vouziers (pre 2015 Buzancy).A Rekruten-Depot was a place where the soldiers from home, sent as replacement, were given a last training before going to the frontline. Also recouperated soldiers who were going to be reintegrated into their regiment got a bit of prior training there.

GreyC

Edited by GreyC
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53 minutes ago, GreyC said:

The stamp indicates that he was at that time part of the Rekruten-Depot of the 33rd division

Thank you for your reply GreyC.  So as it was the Rekruten-Depot of the 33rd division would that mean it was for soldiers of the 33rd division only, or were soldiers from other divisions sent there as well? It looks as Detlef Müller has the number 66 on his helmet cover which does not tie with the 33rd Division. Regards, Bob.

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The number on the helmet may be still from his unit in Germany, so not necessarily related to the 33rd division.

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I´d second that.

It was not unusual for soldiers to be allocated to a different unit than that before his being wounded in action or ill for a longer period of time. Unfortunately the name Müller in Germany is about as common as Miller in England. However he seems not to have been wounded at least before he sent the card, as the only Detlef Müller listed in the loss list was not from a unit with a 66 in its name. So the number (if indeed it is 66) might well stem from the home unit. This brings us to the next problem. If (and only if) he lived in or near Boizenburg when the war broke out, he was registered within the IX. Armee-Korps and would have been assigned to a unit either of the IX. AK or to a Garde unit. Neither of which had the number 60 or 66. So either the number on the helmet might be wrong/wrongly deciphered or he didn´t live in the region, or there is a third reason hitherto unknown to me, that brought him to a unit with a 6 in its number.

GreyC

Edited by GreyC
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  • Michelle Young changed the title to Detlef Muller

Thank you for your replies AOK4 and GreyC, I have a few more questions but no time right now. Regards, Bob.

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good evening,

 

Nouart is a small village in the Ardennes north of the Argonne.

 

1914 :

33rd Div :

66 Inf Brig :

IR 98 - IR 130

67 Inf Brig :

IR 135 - IR 144

33. Feldartillerie-Brigade :

Feld-Artillerie-Regiment Nr.33

Feld-Artillerie-Regiment Nr.34

Sanitätskompanie Nr. 1

other :

Jäger-Regiment-zu-Pferde Nr.12 :

1. Kompanie 1. Lothringisches Pionier-Bataillon Nr.16

Divisions-Brücken-Train Nr. 33

Sanitätskompanie Nr. 3

 

1918 :

66. Infanterie-Brigade :

IR 98 - IR 130

other :
4. Eskadron Jäger-Regiment-zu-Pferde Nr. 12
Arko 33
Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 16
Divisions-Nachrichten-Kommandeur Nr. 33


33rd Infantry Division (1914-18 only on the Western Front):
22.08.-27.08.1914 Battle of Longwy-Longuyon and the Othain section
28.08.-01.09.1914 Battle for the Meuse Crossings
02.09.-03.09.1914 Battle of Varennes-Montfaucon (1st Battle of Varennes)
04.09.-05.09.1914 Persecution west of Verdun and by the Argons
06.09.-12.09.1914 Battle of Vaubecourt-Fleury (V.-Sommaisne)
17.09.-24.09.1914 Battle of Varennes (2nd Battle of Varennes)
25.09.1914-08.08.1916 Fight in the Argonforest
09.08.-09.09.1916 Battle of Verdun
09.08.-09.09.1916 Battles for Fleury
10.10.-30.11.1916 Fight in the Argonforest
17.12.1916-31.01.1917 Positional battles on the Somme
25.02.-30.04.1917 Positional battles in the Argons
04.05.-27.05.1917 Battle of Champagne
03.06.-04.10.1917 Positional battles in the Argons
06.10.1917.-06.01.1918 Positional battles in the Champagne
08.01.-12.03.1918 Reserve of the O.H.L.
12.03.-20.03.1918 Deployment
21.03.-06.04.1918 Great Battle of France
21.03.-22.03.1918 Breakthrough Battle at St. Quentin-La Fére
23.-24.03.1918 Fights during the crossing over the Somme and the Crozat Canal between St. Christ and Tergnier
25.03.-31.03.1918 Chase fights to Montdidier-Noyon
07.04.-22.04.1918 Fights at Montdidier and Noyon
27.05.-02.06.1918 Battle of Soissons and Reims
27.05.1918 Storming of the heights of the Chemin des Dames
28.05.-01.06.1918 Chase fights between Oise and Aisne and over the Vesle to the Marne
30.05.-02.06.1918 Attack battles west and southwest of Soissons
05.07.-14.07.1918 Reserve of the O.H.L.
15.07.-17.07.1918 Battle of the Marne and Champagne
18.07.-25.07.1918 Defensive battle between Soissons and Reims
26.07.-27.07.1918 The moving defensive battle between Marne and Oise
10.08.-25.09.1918 Positional battles in front of Verdun
26.09.-11.11.1918 Defensive battle in the Champagne and the Meuse
12.11.1918-05.01.1919 Evacuation of the occupied territory and march to the homeland

 

regards

 

michel

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Hi Bob,

why did you open up a second thread to your query? Now people answer twice and partly the same. Waste of time for those who help and then have to discover that the information was alredy given albeit at a different place.

Not a good idea.

GreyC

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  • Admin
7 hours ago, GreyC said:

Hi Bob,

why did you open up a second thread to your query? Now people answer twice and partly the same. Waste of time for those who help and then have to discover that the information was alredy given albeit at a different place.

Not a good idea.

GreyC

 

The threads have been merged.  The original post was moved at the request of the OP and the MOD didn't realise there had been replies, Our apologies.

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Hi all, I apologize for creating confusion, I was not sure if I had the post in the correct place so I thought to ask a moderator about it. Thanks to all who have helped so far. Regards, Bob.

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On 22/11/2020 at 20:55, battle of loos said:

Nouart is a small village in the Ardennes north of the Argonne

Hi all, thank you for the list of places/battles for the 33rd Division Michel. Thanks for the apology @GreyC I realize my mistake now and will learn from it. I should have left the posts where they were. Does anyone know if there are 'war diaries' from the German infantry regiments similar to those from the British regiments? One more question, does the uniform Detlef is wearing give any clues to his regiment (other than the number on his pickelhaube cover,which is not clear at all)?  Regards, Bob.

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Apart from odd splinters in foreign archives, mainly Russian ones, there are no diaries from Prussian units which have all been destroyed in April 1945. You may be lucky with Württemberg, Saxon and particularly Bavarian diaries, as they were only destroyed in part.

Concerning your question to indications of regiment: no. Only typ of unit (infantry) but not specific number as the numbers of the unit as indicated on the flaps are not visible.

GreyC

Edited by GreyC
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