Died in Stourbridge Hospital, buried in Fulham?

[Caroles Gt Grandad]

I thought I had completed my research for my Great Grandad's contribution to the War until this evening!

He died in 1918 in the military hospital in Stourbridge of wounds received in France. I have always visited his grave in Fulham Palace Road without a second thought.

This evening I read an article written on the Hammersmith & Fulham Historical Society page about the cemeteries there. It informed me that soldiers who died in the Hammersmith military hospital were buried in the Fulham Palace Road cemetery, which would make sense. 

So I then wondered why my Great Grandad wouldn't have been buried in Stourbridge where he died? He did live in Fulham so I assumed that was why, but then i wondered if they returned bodies to their hometowns during the War?

 

Unfortunately his records seem to be amongst the 'burnt records' so trying to establish exactly what happened to him has been just about impossible.

Is there anywhere where I can e-mail/write to (maybe the hospital, wherever that may be listed under now) to try to establish what happened and why he wasn't buried in Stourbridge, or indeed where he arrived from?

 

Thank you in anticipation of anyones help

Carole

[Malcolm Linham]

Carole 

 

As he died in the Uk and assuming that his parents were still alive. 

If they could afford to have his body moved , then this was acceptable. 

I can remember something similar where by the congregation of the church where he had been a choir boy paid for the arrangements so that he could be buried in his local churchyard

 

Malcolm

[Caroles Gt Grandad]

Thank you Malcolm,

 

paying to bring him home is a possibility I hadn't thought of although his parents had both died in the late 1890's. He was 42 years old and he was married with 6 children so I'm not sure they had the money to do that, but maybe.

 

Carole 

[kenf48]

As early as January 1915 it was acknowledged the cost of conveying a body home was likely to be prohibitive for many families.  As a consequence the War Office announced that where a soldier died in the U.K. and the relatives desired the soldier to be buried at home the War Office would pay to convey the body home (essentially in this case the London rail terminus) provided the death was caused by active service.  

 

All other expenses had to be met by the relatives requesting this dispensation  but often they were supported by friendly societies, former employers or charitable contributions within the community acknowledging the death of the soldier in the service of his country.  Local burials to the hospital would not incur any expense. 

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, kenf48 said:

All other expenses had to be met

 

    Was the offer of a bearer party, officer and padre a standard one?   I have a local casualty, Labour Corps, who died of pneumonia after being housed with his Home Service Employment Company in wet tents and wet blankets at Chatham. According to a newspaper report, the widow  turned down the bearer party, etc. but still had the Union Flag on his coffin. As she blamed the Army for his death, his guard of honour was composed of milkmen from his former place of employment

Edited 18 November , 2020 by Guest

[John(txic)]

Carole,

 

 

The local Patriotic Society would often arrange for their local lads to be returned home for burial, and a grand funeral laid on (if that was the family's wish).  Not all so wished.

 

There were two hospitals in Stourbridge: 1st Southern General, which was a major recipient of wounded from France; convoys of lorries from the nearby GWR station would convey them; this is probably where your Gt Grandad died.  There was also a VAD hospital in Stourbridge: Lord & Lady Enville put Studley Court at the country's disposal, and it was used largely as a convalescent centre.  Post war, this became the Council House for Stourbridge UDC and is still in use by Dudley MBC.  1st Southern General was used post-war as Wordsley Hospital; it was demolished in the '90s.  When I had my wisdom teeth extracted there in 1982 I stayed in a ward which had housed wounded soldiers from both world wars!

[kenf48]

Was the offer of a bearer party, officer and padre a standard one?   I have a local casualty, Labour Corps, who died of pneumonia after being housed with his Home Service Employment Company in wet tents and wet blankets at Chatham. According to a newspaper report, the widow  turned down the bearer party, etc. but still had the Union Flag on his coffin. As she blamed the Army for his death, his guard of honour was composed of milkmen from his former place of employment

 

As your example shows, the funeral arrangements were in accordance with the wishes of next of kin.  

 

Local arrangements might include a bearer party etc, sometimes a gun carriage was used, no doubt the relatives were involved but I don’t think there was a ‘standard’.    We don’t know who the OP’s g-grandfather served with but one assumes London District would step in if a military funeral was requested and take over the arrangements.   Here in Eastbourne there were many military funerals, including the band from the convalescent camp or Command Depot.  Relatives often attended the ceremony.  Accounts show that whilst the band, bearers were often provided from local units, including the Volunteers, the funeral arrangements were supervised by a local undertaker.

 

 

[Matlock1418]

23 hours ago, kenf48 said:

As early as January 1915 it was acknowledged the cost of conveying a body home was likely to be prohibitive for many families.  As a consequence the War Office announced that where a soldier died in the U.K. and the relatives desired the soldier to be buried at home the War Office would pay to convey the body home (essentially in this case the London rail terminus) provided the death was caused by active service.  

 

23 hours ago, kenf48 said:

All other expenses had to be met by the relatives requesting this dispensation  but often they were supported by friendly societies, former employers or charitable contributions within the community acknowledging the death of the soldier in the service of his country.

This is not to say that such funeral arrangements necessarily/consequentially were mean affairs [as is indicated below]:

 

2 hours ago, kenf48 said:

Accounts show that whilst the band, bearers were often provided from local units, including the Volunteers, the funeral arrangements were supervised by a local undertaker.

Here's another example:

To take the case of a young soldier I looked into = Pte John Thomas Warburton TR4/23980 53rd (YS). Bn., Cheshire Regt., - who died after illness whilst in training at Rhyl in early 1918.

 

The account of his funeral is recorded in the Leominster News, 22 Feb. 1918 and includes:

     "The body was brought by train to Leominster on Monday afternoon and conveyed to the house of his sister ...

The funeral took place on Tuesday, deceased being accorded military honours.  The officiating clergyman was the Rev. John Morgan, Domestic Chaplain to the Bishop of Truro and now Chaplain to the Forces.  Captain Morgan had attended the deceased in his illness at Kinmel Park.  The procession from the house was headed by a firing party from "B" Company, Herefordshire Volunteer Regiment, who marched with reversed arms.  The interment took place at the Cemetery, Capt., the Rev., J. Morgan officiating both in the cemetery chapel and at the graveside.  Following a most impressive recital of the burial service, three volleys were fired over the grave by the firing party and the Last Post was sounded by Messrs. Fairbanks and Harris. ... The bearers were four 'silver badge' men ... The coffin was covered by with a large Union Jack and on it were also placed the deceased's cap, belt and bayonet.  Co.-Sergt.-Major R.H. Cooke and Pte. Haughton were present representing the deceased young soldier's unit."

 

The article continues to also report on floral tributes ...

     "'In affectionate remembrance' - from the Officers, N.C.O.'s and Men 'E' Coy., 53rd Y.S.B, Cheshire Regiment.  From the N.C.O.s and of his barrack room No. 4" 

 

There was also a final 26 line paragraph recounting a letter from Major A. D. M. Farrar, commanding the deceased's company, to his father which included:

     "Please let me know if there are any expenses connected with his burial which I shall be happy to defray"

 

The status of Pte. Warburton's father/family is not known but they lived at Eaton Cottage - and, as also reported in the article, Pte. Warburton was formerly a motor driver in the employ of a grocer in Leominster and latterly employed as a tractor driver - One feels his burial was much better than the norm for those civilians of his apparent background.

:-) M

 

P.S. As an aside:  

Captain, the Rev., John Morgan went on to become the Archbishop of Wales - his ability to give a most impressive recital of the burial service must have helped him along his way!

 

[Knotty]

12 hours ago, John(txic) said:

Post war, this became the Council House for Stourbridge UDC and is still in use by Dudley MBC. 

I had the pleasure of working in said building from 82-89 as the Council’s Senior Land Surveyor. We moved out for a period in 87, (politics in play) and when we returned later in the year, part of the re-homing process required a full survey of the empty building including the cellars. One of my team found a Webley Mk VI revolver plus numerous rounds wrapped in an oil cloth, ‘hidden’ in a recess, in the cellars, which was duly reported. The subsequent “panic” by the boys in blue sealing the building off, refusing to allow us out and calling in the Army was amusing to say the least.(Bearing in mind this was in the times of the Troubles.)

 

Thought I’d just share one of my memories

John

[Caroles Gt Grandad]

On 18/11/2020 at 23:51, Knotty said:

I had the pleasure of working in said building from 82-89 as the Council’s Senior Land Surveyor. We moved out for a period in 87, (politics in play) and when we returned later in the year, part of the re-homing process required a full survey of the empty building including the cellars. One of my team found a Webley Mk VI revolver plus numerous rounds wrapped in an oil cloth, ‘hidden’ in a recess, in the cellars, which was duly reported. The subsequent “panic” by the boys in blue sealing the building off, refusing to allow us out and calling in the Army was amusing to say the least.(Bearing in mind this was in the times of the Troubles.)

 

Thought I’d just share one of my memories

John

 

On 18/11/2020 at 11:07, John(txic) said:

Carole,

 

 

The local Patriotic Society would often arrange for their local lads to be returned home for burial, and a grand funeral laid on (if that was the family's wish).  Not all so wished.

 

There were two hospitals in Stourbridge: 1st Southern General, which was a major recipient of wounded from France; convoys of lorries from the nearby GWR station would convey them; this is probably where your Gt Grandad died.  There was also a VAD hospital in Stourbridge: Lord & Lady Enville put Studley Court at the country's disposal, and it was used largely as a convalescent centre.  Post war, this became the Council House for Stourbridge UDC and is still in use by Dudley MBC.  1st Southern General was used post-war as Wordsley Hospital; it was demolished in the '90s.  When I had my wisdom teeth extracted there in 1982 I stayed in a ward which had housed wounded soldiers from both world wars!

Thank you John,

'Section' the 1st Southern General hospital was his place of death, would you know what 'Section' means? 

I think I will have to go with the idea that his body was sent home, for whatever reason I'm glad he was. It must have given his wife some comfort, though not enough to prevent her death a couple of years later, sadly.

Is there anywhere that I can write or e-mail that might be able to tell me when he arrived at the hospital and from exactly where?  I would just love to be able to find out but as his service records aren't available I'm not sure where to turn to next.

[Knotty]

Hello Carole

Probably needs a bit more investigating, but as far as I was aware, the main 1st Southern General Hospital was based at the University of Birmingham. In the summer of 1915 the infirmary of the Stourbridge Union Workhouse at Wordsley was taken over as a 510 bed annexe (or even Sectioned maybe, my words) to the 1st Southern General Hospital. The infirmary became known as Stourbridge Military Hospital and Dr. William Kirkpatrick, previously at Studley Court Red Cross Hospital in Stourbridge, was put in command at Wordsley with the rank of Major in the Royal Army Medical Corps. Previously Dr. Kirkpatrick, was a respected doctor in Stourbridge town for over twenty years.

Studey Court, (where I worked) was more of a convalescent hospital, however it did see its fair share of death, particularly with the Spanish flu outbreak, as in the nearby Stourbridge Cemetery there is a large CWCG plot. 

Where to look next? Good question, I’m sure that there are pals on here that have the knowledge and would be able to steer you in the right direction, but I think it would be useful if we had to start at least his name and regiment if possible.

 

. 

[Caroles Gt Grandad]

3 hours ago, Knotty said:

Hello Carole

Probably needs a bit more investigating, but as far as I was aware, the main 1st Southern General Hospital was based at the University of Birmingham. In the summer of 1915 the infirmary of the Stourbridge Union Workhouse at Wordsley was taken over as a 510 bed annexe (or even Sectioned maybe, my words) to the 1st Southern General Hospital. The infirmary became known as Stourbridge Military Hospital and Dr. William Kirkpatrick, previously at Studley Court Red Cross Hospital in Stourbridge, was put in command at Wordsley with the rank of Major in the Royal Army Medical Corps. Previously Dr. Kirkpatrick, was a respected doctor in Stourbridge town for over twenty years.

Studey Court, (where I worked) was more of a convalescent hospital, however it did see its fair share of death, particularly with the Spanish flu outbreak, as in the nearby Stourbridge Cemetery there is a large CWCG plot. 

Where to look next? Good question, I’m sure that there are pals on here that have the knowledge and would be able to steer you in the right direction, but I think it would be useful if we had to start at least his name and regiment if possible.

 

. 

Hello Knotty,

 

thank you for that info, it must have been quite something to work there and I'm sure conditions were much better in your time there than they were back then.

 

Great Grandad's name was Albert Edward Wells, born 7th April 1876 in Kensington.

He was in the A.S.C. rank, Driver, his number was T4/142757. (I understand the T means he was with horses?).

All I know of his service in the army was that he volunteered in February 1915 and, after training, he was drafted to France. In the National Roll of the Great War, it says he took an active part in many engagements and was badly wounded and invalided home. He died on 25th October 1918 of gunshot wounds to both legs and abdomen, also Toxemia and heart failure. At the time of his death he was with the 5th Cavalry Reserves.

His grave is in Fulham Cemetery.

 

If there is anyone out there that might be able to point me in the direction of somewhere I can contact  from any of the above information, I would be eternally grateful.  In the meantime I will continue searching and if anything should turn up I will post on here.

 

Thank you very much.

Carole.

[Matlock1418]

On 17/11/2020 at 19:15, Caroles Gt Grandad said:

So I then wondered why my Great Grandad wouldn't have been buried in Stourbridge where he died? He did live in Fulham so I assumed that was why, but then i wondered if they returned bodies to their hometowns during the War?

 

On 21/11/2020 at 19:16, Caroles Gt Grandad said:

Albert Edward Wells, born 7th April 1876 in Kensington.

He was in the A.S.C. rank, Driver, his number was T4/142757

On 17/11/2020 at 19:41, Caroles Gt Grandad said:

He was 42 years old and he was married with 6 children so I'm not sure they had the money to do that, but maybe.

 

As has been indicated above - yes they did 'repatriate' bodies in the UK at the request of the family. 

Would presume his family wanted his body 'home' so they could keep an eye on his grave.

From his Widow's Pension Cards at the Western Front Association/Fold3 so far as his family was concerned we can see:

Widow:

Lilian Helen b.18.7.1879

Children:

Beatrice Mary b.27.12.1903

Albert Arthur b.231.1.1906

John Chris b.9.1.1911

Winifred Florence Grace b.6.10.1913

Address:

82 Adeney Rd., Fulham [Or 82 Ardeney Rd.]

Pension:

33/9 [33s 9d] pw from 28.4.1919 plus a £ Grant [a death grant/gratuity - amount not stated, but commonly £5 to help with expenses associated with death] plus a payment of 50F Correction: I've since learnt more - apparently the "50F"on the card was a form and the date must relate to its administration.

[An included, age-related, 2/6 supplement to the standard pension rate will have been paid to his widow as she was between 35-45yo]

It appears that only four children were recorded - so it seems likely the others were over 16yo in 1919 [or perhaps some were living elsewhere] and thus not eligible for a separation allowance(s) which would have been continued to be paid from date of death until widow's pension and four children's pension allowances then kicked in [presuming none died - children payable up to 16yo when each would cease].

The claim was made "DEAD" in 1931 [so would appear either his widow had died previously/died then and/or the youngest child had reached the end of their pension].

Won't have been an easy time financially I feel sure - Many widows/families liked to try and make some sort of contribution, however small, for the funeral & burial and for mourning as it helped to reduce the perceived stigma of being seen as a pauper being buried at the state's expense [a bit of a hangover from Victorian & Edwardian times it does seem – probably not quite so bad by the end of the war] - Often seen as a short inscription on the foot of a CWGC headstone [often as simple as just RIP as originally the idea was that they would be paid for by the widow/family at 3d per letter].  None on Albert's headstone in Fulham though = Tough times it would likely seem. :-(

 

On 21/11/2020 at 19:16, Caroles Gt Grandad said:

If there is anyone out there that might be able to point me in the direction of somewhere I can contact

Re: Stourbridge Hospital

Some feelers are out = Perhaps. ???

:-) M

Edited 26 January , 2021 by Matlock1418
typo and later correction

[Knotty]

15 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Re: Stourbridge Hospital

A good suggestion, however Wordsley Hospital (Stourbridge as was) closed down in 2005 and is now a housing estate. Any records would come under The Dudley Group a NHS Foundation Trust

[Matlock1418]

28 minutes ago, Knotty said:

A good suggestion, however Wordsley Hospital (Stourbridge as was) closed down in 2005 and is now a housing estate.

Yes, and is clearly understood by me, but ... feelers are out

:-) M

Edited 22 November , 2020 by Matlock1418

[Matlock1418]

My source [who is not a GWF member], has researched some of the Stourbridge hospitals' activities in some depth, and has replied as follows:

 

"There is no (to my knowledge) surviving central registry for either Wordsley [Stourbridge] or Studley Court [VAD] (Studley was only ever a FWW hospital by the way and closed as such in 1919). I have tracked down a handful of individual soldiers via their own records where they survive in the pension files, and a few (very, very few) are mentioned by name in the 'County Express' newspaper, usually in conjunction with winning prizes at whist drives, etc. Australian soldier's records are of course comprehensive, and many Australians passed through both hospitals, but again you have to go from the man to the hospital, rather than hospital to the man. There is a very time restricted admissions list at the Australian War memorial in Canberra, but of course this is of no use in trying to track a British casualty.
 
One additional complication in identifying men who went to Stourbridge is they are often recorded arbitrarily under 'Birmingham', the Stourbridge hospitals being 'annexes' of the First Southern General at Selly Oak. I have found cases where I know a man was definitely at Stourbridge but his official record implies he spent all his time in Birmingham.
 
With regard to Stourbridge Cemetery there is a war graves plot and a cross of sacrifice. The plot contains the graves of eighteen commonwealth causalities all or most of whom died at Wordsley. There is also a monument to these erected by Stourbridge Council in 1921. Interestingly this has on it the names of two American servicemen who died at Wordsley and were buried in Stourbridge, but were later exhumed and taken back to the USA. So far as I know the war graves outside the plot are Stourbridge men who either died in Stourbridge or whose bodies were 'repatriated' from other UK locations.
 
Finally, I have no record of anyone dying at Studley Court, even of the flu, so I would be interested to know where that is referenced. I doubt very much if men would die of wounds at Studley"

 

Big GWF thanks go to my source.

 

Others may have further info, but I'm afraid on this aspect from me for now it's a bit of a dead end.

:-) M

Edited 23 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
another darned typo!

[Knotty]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Finally, I have no record of anyone dying at Studley Court, even of the flu, so I would be interested to know where that is referenced. I doubt very much if men would die of wounds at Studley"

Hi Matlock

Below is a quote copied directly from the pdf of the History of Mary Steven Park produced by Dudley MBC (The park is were Studley Court is)
 

 

‘There is no evidence of hospital use today and later occupiers have made good the inevitable alterations and damage of these years. The true reminder of its part in the Great War can be seen in Stourbridge Cemetery. There are 50 Commonwealth War Graves Commission graves with familiar Portland headstones but the cluster standing beside the main highway represents the Studley Court men who did not survive. Eleven are from Australian and three from Canadian units. It was to show respect for them that the familiar Military Cemetery pillar and cross stand beside the cemetery gate’

 

More investigations would be the order of the day, me thinks👍

Edited 23 November , 2020 by Knotty

[Matlock1418]

3 hours ago, Knotty said:

More investigations would be the order of the day, me thinks👍

Yes, it would generally seem so - not least to know more specifically where the author/Dudley MBC got their facts = Isn't there always room for more investigation(s)?

This is not to recklessly challenge such a statement in their little book - but it is always good to know what their source(s) were - Its a shame they weren't more exactly referenced in their publication ;-( - though they did give note SIGNIFICANT BOOKS AND SOURCES and OTHER SIGNIFICANT SOURCES [p.72] as a starter for others to perhaps follow. :-)

Book is here:  https://www.dudley.gov.uk/media/15263/msp-booklet.pdf - for perhaps wider interest as it is really only includes the Studley Court/VAD hospital [p27-30 incl.].

[Glad you quoted your source :-) - sadly, commonly and quite understandably for brevity, not always done on GWF and it can certainly lead to frustration I feel sure for those who would like to follow up - well it does for me! ;-( ]

The problem sadly remains that we haven't yet found anything significant for the OP re: the main Stourbridge Infirmary/Wordsley Hospital. :-(

:-) M

 

Further edit/postscript:

My source having previously done much local research, including Studley House and its time as a VAD hospital, and having worked in the locale comments as follows:

"I have just checked my files and of the Commonwealth and American causalities originally buried in Stourbridge Cemetery, thirteen were Australians with a surviving Army Form A.27 (Morning State of Sick) on which death was recorded and certified by a Medical Officer. All these record place of death as First Southern General, Stourbridge. Wards are sometimes stated as B,C and F which were still extant when I worked there in the 1970's. Most of the deaths are certified by Dr. Kirkpatrick. There is no indication amongst this cohort of any death at Studley Court. I suppose, though I very much doubt it, that 'First Southern General' might have been used as a blanket term for Wordsley and Studley. Studley was a VAD run recuperation hospital, and as all the recorded Australian deaths are of men suffering from acute wounds or illness I doubt very much they would have been transferred to Studley. I am aware of the statement in the booklet referred to, which was primarily written by Roy Peacock, a highly respected local historian, for the Friends of Mary Stevens Park. This was a very general history and as with any non-specific, non-academic work might be prone to errors, as seems to have been the case in this instance. Finally, having previously trawled the 'County Express', as part of an MA dissertation, for the entire period of both Wordsley and Studley Court's existence as First World War military hospitals I found no report of a death at the latter. This doesn't mean to say one never took place of course (particularly from 'Spanish' Influenza) and possibly further research might reveal otherwise.
Studley Court, originally a private house, went on to become Stourbridge Borough Council's headquarters and is now used as offices for its successor Dudley MBC. When I visited these two years ago many surviving features from the house/hospital period were clearly visible."

I thank my source very much for their kind responses to my approach and enquiries.

They did earlier say "I have no record ..." = And they certainly would agree that more research, by others perhaps, would be welcomed.

Sadly we at GWF still have no further answer for the OP [yet?] :-/

Edited 23 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
an early tweak and then a further edit/postscript.

[Caroles Gt Grandad]

That all makes for very interesting reading, thank you for the extra info and for taking the trouble to try to help. Thank you to your contacts also.

 

His widow died in 1922 just 4 years after Albert, (cause entered as 'Phthisis', no P.M.),  so I'm assuming the pension went to the eldest child afterwards if it stopped in 1931?  I believe my grandad and his siblings were brought up by one of the elder sisters who would have been between 22 and 19 in 1922! I am eagerly awaiting the release of the 1921 census to try to find out where the other daughters were living.

My aunt had told us that they found quite a lot of empty laudanum bottles in Lilian's house/rooms after her death  . I think she must have struggled with things after his death. Just one more sad story along with the millions of others, God bless them all!

 

I'm sending for a DNA testing kit so you never know, I might connect with a living relative I know nothing about who may know more! I live in hope.

 

Thank you all again. 

 

 

I noticed that I've been promoted! Lance-Corporal!!  

[Matlock1418]

4 hours ago, Caroles Gt Grandad said:

His widow died in 1922 just 4 years after Albert, (cause entered as 'Phthisis', no P.M.)

Very sad - Tuberculosis was a very typical cause of early death in those days. :-(

 

4 hours ago, Caroles Gt Grandad said:

I'm assuming the pension went to the eldest child afterwards if it stopped in 1931?

I would think the pension / children's allowance(s) [gradually diminishing in total] will have gone to whichever person(s) was legally the guardian, in loco parentis, for the child(ren) until the youngest reached 16 in 1931 [possibly to persons if the children were dispersed] - but we have no note on the card of that.

We are unlikely to know the whole story unless miraculously the pension file somehow turns up [please don't hold your breath!]

 

4 hours ago, Caroles Gt Grandad said:

 I believe my grandad and his siblings were brought up by one of the elder sisters who would have been between 22 and 19 in 1922!

If your family story is true [and I'm not disputing it] they were lucky to have older siblings/family to look after them in the UK - many orphans, such as in my wider family twenty years before, got shipped out to the Dominions - to Canada [as 'British Home Children'] for fostering e.g. by Dr. Barnardo's.

And it happened in later decades too. :-(

 

4 hours ago, Caroles Gt Grandad said:

I am eagerly awaiting the release of the 1921 census to try to find out where the other daughters were living.

June/July 2022 I believe. [So not quite so long to hold your breath!]

;-) M

Edited 25 November , 2020 by Matlock1418