Arthur Crouch 12th kings royal rifles

[Leelums21]

I am researching Arthur Crouch 12th kings royal rifles also mentions 12th battalion London regiment are they the same my great grandfather.

I have his war records and medal index what other ways or records  are there that he could be mentioned in he was very lucky he was burried alive twice and gased and still survived 

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Leelums21 said:

I am researching Arthur Crouch 12th kings royal rifles

also mentions 12th battalion London regiment are they the same

my great grandfather.

I have his war records and medal index

what other ways or records  are there that he could be mentioned in

he was very lucky he was burried alive twice and gased and still survived 

Hi Lee,

You seem to think you have two options of regiment for your great grandfather [GGF]

Could please let us know what service number(s) / regiment(s) you are primarily thinking [better still know] is your GGF? - and why.

Then the alternative you suspect.

 

There are potentially quite a lot of Arthur Crouch who get a MIC to go at!

Several have Service Records.

And there are a few who were killed - OK we can take them off the list, but ...

• Potentially there are: Hospital admissions & discharges / Casualty cards / Casualty lists / Pension cards / War Diaries / Gallantry awards / London Gazette / Newspapers / Absent Voter Lists / Marriage certificate(s) (his) / Birth Certificate(s) (his child's/Children(s) etc. - are all possible further sources.

All these are potential sources of military info. [yes, even the civilian ones] - but I think we need to be more sure exactly which soldier you/we are after.  

 

So also - if you can also give us a bit more info on your GGF: Date of birth, parents, place of residence, marital status, children etc. it might help us all a bit more/alternatively.

Good luck with your research.

:-) M

 

Edit: Btw, for what it is worth - If that is your GGF in the photo [I'm guessing you think it is - how do you know?] though I can't make out the cap badge the black buttons on his jacket do seem to suggest KRRC to me - and I suspect the London Regt is a potential red-herring.  Further Edit: now found not to be the case of a red-herring

Edited 14 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
edit / further edit

[Leelums21]

He was born 1894 lived in Piddinghoe then Eastbourne limetree avenue also spent time in the Workhouse there he married to a Edith Caroline Harvey lived in Silvertown custom house then Dagenham.

The photo has been in the family for ages was given to me by mum who wanted me to do retouching on it.

 Was from nans side of the family

 

[Leelums21]

[Matlock1418]

Now I think I see your puzzle

There seem to be four SR records [On Find My Past anyway] for who I now suspect is your GGF, Arthur Crouch

Citing both KRRC and London Regiment

And Regtl. Nos.   R/23821, 33160, 33161, 474707 & 474709

- and yet the same address on two of them

Bottom line seems to be that he served in both.

Seems to have attested in Stratford in 1915 with KRRC, been sent to France in 1916 with KRRC [so his British War Medal & Victory Medal would be KRRC] to serve with KRRC then posted to 12 London Regt. in 1918 [and finished his days with/discharged from London Regt to Reserve in UK in 1919]

Have I got close?  I think I have.

Further Edit: well close(ish) - OK, thats the trouble with trying to look at a monitor rather than pages - I don't have all the SR pages laid out in front of me but think you should probably be able to sort out the exact sequence

:-) M

 

Edit: I hadn't seen your last post - I missed it so we crossed

Yes, those seem the same MIC & SR documents I have been looking at.

Edited 14 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
Edit and correction of regtl details.

[Leelums21]

yes that is is very hard to read  you have done vey well i did have some documents from his war records one is v funny his wife saying did she need to give him some extra socks and a reply saying she didnt need to they would supply them thanks for deciphering it all.

   Leelums

[Leelums21]

This is him after the war when he seems to have recovered extremely well considering what he went through.

[Leelums21]

I believe he was at vimy ridge, delville wood , cambrai

And guinchy is there a way to confirm this.

 

Edited 14 November , 2020 by Leelums21

[Matlock1418]

57 minutes ago, Leelums21 said:

By the way I am not at all sure this is your GGF if the TR5/59355 regtl. no. and 1917 date of discharge are considered.

:-) M

[Leelums21]

Yes i wasnt sure about brompton kent i didnt know the lived that side of the river as well.

[Matlock1418]

18 minutes ago, Leelums21 said:

I believe he was at vimy ridge, delville wood , cambrai

And guinchy as there a way to confirm this.

Crikey! - you have posted more whilst I have been fiddling to tidy my earlier stuff up a bit!

Good stuff - great to have a photo.

Have you found a War Diary at the National Archives?

Edit: Fiddling again - You will have to track which Battalion he was with in France [think he went out with the 21st Bn. ?? he may well have moved about a bit to others so you'll have to go over the SRs

The good news is that if you can find a WD(s) at TNA https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk they are currently free to download if you register {for free] with them - but he may not be mentioned by name. [Perhaps might be if he was twice buried alive and recovered] - Note: search using "# Battalion, King's Royal Rifle Corps" Not "#th Battalion ................."

He might have even have made it into the press too - the sort of stories they would love, if they heard about them.  He may have kept quiet to his family though!

Good luck.

:-) M

Edited 14 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
edit

[Leelums21]

Thanks that is very usefull will take alook later

[clk]

Hi,

 

Just to confirm, his medal roll record shows his overseas units and dates, which you can then cross reference to the diaries held by the National Archives.

 

Image sourced from Ancestry

 

Regards

Chris

[Matlock1418]

33 minutes ago, clk said:

Just to confirm, his medal roll record shows his overseas units and dates, which you can then cross reference to the diaries held by the National Archives.

Chris,

Nice one! - I always struggle to remember/find medal rolls ;-/

- will help Lee more easily/quickly than my earlier SR suggestion and will nicely link with the various SR [which I still think are very worth getting off FMP as better quality scans imho]

:-) M

[Leelums21]

Thanks here are more docs i have just found out some might be able to read them.

I would be very grateful if anything else can befound out from the have a lovely christmas you have all been very helpful tar.

[Caroline M]

Dear All (especially @Leelums21),

Arthur Crouch is my Great Grandfather - we have a copy of the same photograph (my maternal grandmother - Doris Edith Marsh née Crouch - is the eldest daughter sitting next to Arthur in the photograph).  Not sure if you are still on this site - but just to say hi and thanks to everyone for all the help and info you have given here!

I had no idea he was buried alive - poor guy - did know about the gassing though as family history says that’s why he ended up dying so young at only 50.   

[kenf48]

54 minutes ago, Caroline M said:

 Not sure if you are still on this site - but just to say hi

Welcome to the GWF

Leelums 21 has not visited us for while but my tag should alert them to your post.

You can send them a personal message now your post has been approved. Simply click on their name and open the dialog box 'Message'

[Caroline M]

Thank you.  That’s kind of you to get in touch.  I will do that.  C.  

[Leelums21]

Hi Caroline hope you and your family are well are Researching your g grandad records as well I still remember Wal and Doris they both lovely People are you a relation of Russell I think was his name I remember him staying at Jaywick with us when we  kids. I have been doing reach on Arthur for a while he must have been through and yet he was still able to carry on working in the Docks for a while afterwards I think that's what it mainly says I think Wal suffered a lot as well from the 2nd World War having horrid nightmares about what they went through luckily my grandad George told me little bits about Burma and would probably have told me most know have his records but he seemed to have moved around a bit .let me know if you are interested in any info have you download all that is on here about Arthur he was born in Eastbourne and spent time in there Workhouse and his dad Was William who lived in a place called Piddinghoe but was born in Ninfield Sussex

then his dad was John Crouch then they all lived around that Area will have to go I think Marion Terry's daughter went there said were a lot of Crouches in the Cemeteries.  Well I have gone on enough all the best Lee Sapsford

[Caroline M]

Hi Lee - good to meet you!  Russell is my first cousin.  Doris and Wally had two daughters (Rita who is my mum and Doris who is Russell’s mum).  So I am Rita’s daughter - one of the twins (my brother is Neil).  
 

So your grandad is George who had the chalet at Jaywick - I remember going there!  Was your grandmother one of Authur Crouch’s daughters? (So one of my grandmother Doris Marsh’s sisters?).   Was that Grace?   I remember a Lee from my childhood - Is your mum Christine?  If you are that Lee I think you went to Parsonage Farm junior school (a few years younger than me).   
 

i am very impressed with all the information you have found out about Arthur!  I would be very happy to have your research and let you know anything I have on the family generally.  I  knew he had been gassed in the First World War and had died quite young at 50 but that was about all!  I was listening to a podcast about the First World War and thought I should find out a bit more about him - hence finding your post.  
 

I have a family tree on Ancestry - don’t know if you are on Ancestry - but one of Authur’s ancestors (great grandfather?) was Scottish and also in the British Army back in 1821-1842 - so that’s all quite interesting too.  There’s probably a way I could link you with the tree if you have an account.  

Best wishes - look forward to chatting more when you have a moment! 
 

Caroline 
 

 

[Leelums21]

Hi Caroline yes im Lee the crazy 1my lovely nan Was Grace lillian Crouch the little blonde 1 in the photo did you live in Rainham years ago.

At moment I'm trying to find out what went on at Mount Kemmel that is were hw was burried alive twice think can't imagine how bad that must have been and gassed just terrible tough man was Arthur to get through that.

I am on Ancestry but only when they have free days.

as am caring for my Wife Lucy who is very ill with a horrid lung disease I have 1 daughter who is all grown but still my baby snd doing very well as a dental nurse and just engaged and he is lovely bloke and clever. well got to sort out some chores. hope Russell I well of places met him in Easton station underground years ago no email back then though so we lost touch sadly.

Edited 22 April by Leelums21

[kenf48]

@Leelums21 & @Caroline M

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