Evacuation to Casualty Clearing Stations - Ypres 1917

[Smithy26]

Hi,

I was wondering how long it would have taken for a wounded man to be transported from the front line trenches at Passchaendale in Nov 1917 to a Casualty Clearing Station at say Poperinghe?  Its not that far these days but through the horrendous mud and the trench system, then the rubble filled town of Ypres - would it have taken hours, a day, or maybe more?  I assume there were field medic posts to serve as way stations on the way back.  How long would it have taken say in March 1918 when it was a bit drier?  Any anecdotes on this subject would be useful.

Cheers,

Smithy 

[TEW]

Without checking any details I would opt for a 'same day' option.

 

Evacuation routes and methods were fairly well planned out and any problems could be dealt with reasonably quickly.

 

I don't know precisely where these trenches might be or where the CCS is that were receiving the wounded, could be Elverdinghe rather than Pop.

 

Wounded could be moved from the back area by lorry, motor/horse ambulace, cars, light railway, tramline. From The front line to the rear area could be a different matter as that would more than likely be a stretcher carry over the terrain you mention.

 

Occasionally things went wrong and wounded had to sit it out while alternative methods or routes had to be determined.

TEW

[EDWARD1]

Copied this a while ago. Hope it will help in understanding an evacuation  chain

[Buffnut453]

The following is drawn from reports written by a Capt Rogers of the 1/3rd West Lancs Field Ambulance regarding conditions at 3rd Ypres:

 

“Collecting casualties meant traversing a distance of 3,000 yards on the roughest ground, most of it an intricate jumble of shell holes full of mud and water. The ground between was at least over the ankles in mud, mostly over the knees and occasionally up to the waist.  The mud was of a sticky, gluey nature, and sometimes it took 5 hours to travel the 3,000 yards back with the casualty.  The major portion of the ground was exposed with no protection and subject to severe enemy shelling.” 

 

“During a carry, one frequently saw a couple of stretcher bearers slip in a shell hole or deep patch of mud up to their shoulder.  The other four bearers would then support the stretcher while the bogged ones would extricate themselves so as to continue carrying.  This I saw under severe shell fire.  Not once did I see a casualty be allowed to fall or slip off the stretcher.”

 

The description of taking 5 hrs to cover 2.75km gives some indication of the appalling conditions.  Hope this helps provide some insights into the challenges faced by the stretcher bearers as they recovered the many wounded soldiers from the battlefield.  

 

[Smithy26]

Thanks guys, thats very interesting.  Looks like it would be done same day.

The CCS i was referring to covered burials at Nine Elms British Cemetery, which is slightly beyond Poperinghe.

 

Smithy

[TEW]

May be able to find more tomorrow, is there a specific time frame for these burials and/or battalion?

TEW

[TEW]

There is an online memoir of a stretcher bearer present from Aug - Nov 1917. There are about 16 pages with sketches of evacuation routes.

 

You can also download a pdf version.

 

Compare what he says and his sketches to official diary versions shows a good match.

 

The man is not Norman Fermor!

TEW

[Ken Lees]

Don't forget to add on the time at each point along the way. Men were often 'treated' at a number of facilities before reaching the CCS. And then there's the level of demand on any given day. Sometimes the system was unable to cope with the numbers and men could wait for a long time to be collected to move on to the next point. So it's not just the time taken to physically move the casualty over the distance that counts.

[derekjgregory]

I wrote this preliminary - but still fairly detailed – account, drawn from my ongoing work on casualty evacuation in war zone, that I hope contributes to this discussion.  It focuses on the Battle of Menin Road (1917), and includes a number of maps, photographs and eyewitness testimony.  I'd be grateful, too, for any comments, corrections or suggestions.  See https://geographicalimaginations.com/2019/01/31/the-leaden-hours/

[RegHannay]

You could also perhaps take into account breakdown in communication or the system being overwhelmed in slowing down the chain of evacuation.

 

On the 13th-14th October 1915. 7th ESR. Loos area.

My grandfather wrote :- "At 2.00pm the guns lifted and the Surrey's attacked. A terrible time for us waiting and doing nothing. At 2.30 however the first wounded began to come in and now from 2.30pm to 5.30am (15 hours) I was continually dressing wounded.

During the action the field ambulance failed to lend much support despite an urgent message for ambulances to be sent up for our 100 plus wounded waiting to be sent down. Eventually they sent up cars at odd intervals and we got the place nearly cleared by 5.30am. After that the worst cases began to come in, we got busy again for some hours" (* Lt. Milne went down the line to try and accelerate the ambulances*)

 

I believe there was a large offensive along the front that day and maybe the  evacuation chain was completely overwhelmed by the number of casualties. The 7th ESR alone had 90+ deaths.

Dave

Edited 11 November , 2020 by RegHannay

[derekjgregory]

That's really helpful -- thanks so much.  I've noted problems like this elsewhere in my work, and in some places communications were made even more difficult by the sheer difficulty of runners finding their way through a battered landscape where markers were there one minute and gone the next.

[RegHannay]

5 minutes ago, derekjgregory said:

That's really helpful -- thanks so much.  I've noted problems like this elsewhere in my work, and in some places communications were made even more difficult by the sheer difficulty of runners finding their way through a battered landscape where markers were there one minute and gone the next.

Glad it helps

[Mandi]

Hi, u found the drawing very interesting particularly as you have included coordinates.  I was wondering if you know if they buried men near there too, as my great uncle died of his wounds on 21 September 1917 and the coordinates for his grave before he was reburied in ypres were J.13.d.9.8...which is very close to the coordinates in your drawing and near to Clapham Junction.