Ernest William Swan

[researchingreg]

I am trying to find out about Ernest Swan's WW1 service. He did not join the Navy at an early age. He was born 9 May 1883 in New Castle and died 6 April 1948.

In 1911 at the age of 28 he was working as Assistant Engineer Manager at Elswick Ordnance Works, these works produced war ships and guns and during WW1 it made tanks and Armstrong Whitworth aircraft as well. I would have thought his job was a reserved occupation . However he joined the RNVR (when I don't know). On the UK Naval Medal and Award Rollsb he is shown as a Lieutenant serving in the RNVR Division in Newcastle and gained the 1914/15 Star, the Victory Medal and British War Medal (ie the normal ones). The London Gazette Supplement 1 Jan 1930 shows him promoted from Commander to Captain O.B.E. V.D. Then The London Gazette 19 June 1936 shows him as Captain Ernest William Swan O.B.E, V.D, A.D.C. to be Deputy Lieutenant of Northumberland 13 June 1936.

 

Can anybody help re the WW1 service in the RNVR Division or other Naval Service?

 

[horatio2]

Here is his RNVR record - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8642508

[horatio2]

Seniority as a Lt RNVR (Tyneside Division) was 29 July 1910. Mobilised in August 1914. On the books of HMS PRESIDENT per Dec 1914 Navy List. He first joined the RNVR on 2 Feb 1906.

Edited 14 October , 2020 by horatio2

[researchingreg]

Horatio2, Thanks for the info so he was in the RNVR in 1910 when he was working as an Assistant Manager at the Elswick Ordnance Company. His WWI record I have downloaded but it does not show much as to what he did in WW1 and it seems he was promoted to Lt Commander in 1918. But there is no info on his war service. So I am none the wiser, other than he was in a Shore Establishment on the Thames near Tower Bridge HMS President. Did he ever go on a ship? Apparently he did go to Italy.

ADM-337-117-33.pdf

Edited 14 October , 2020 by researchingreg
Added info

[horatio2]

A shame his RNVR record is so thin. Clearly he was at Armstrong Whitworth serving under the Admiralty Director of Naval Operations. His removal from the books of PRESIDENT in April 1915 is not explained..  His later WW1 appointments are a mystery.

[horatio2]

15 minutes ago, researchingreg said:

he was in a Shore Establishment on the Thames near Tower Bridge HMS President.

Not quite, He was borne on the books of HMS PRESIDENT for pay and admin only. He probably never set foot there.

[RNCVR]

In the painting he appears to be wearing a 1914star or 1914-15 star trio.

[RNCVR]

He is either a Commander or Captain in the painting & there is a ribbon before the star, but unable to make it out.

His last ribbon might be an RNVR Officers decoration(?)..

Edited 14 October , 2020 by RNCVR
.

[KizmeRD]

EW Swan was a son of naval architect Henry Frederick Swan, and nephew of the shipbuilder CS Swan (founder of Swan Hunter’s). He followed his father into WG Armstrongs, and in 1901 was Assistant Manager of Elswick Ordnance Works. He married May Harward in 1915, they had two sons and a daughter. 
As an officer in the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, he had a long association with HMS Calliope and saw service in WW1, returning to duty in WW2 shortly after his retirement as Commanding Officer of RNVR Tyne Division. He died suddenly during a train journey to London in April 1948, and his ashes were scattered at sea.
MB

[researchingreg]

38 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

EW Swan was a son of naval architect Henry Frederick Swan, and nephew of the shipbuilder CS Swan (founder of Swan Hunter’s). He followed his father into WG Armstrongs, and in 1901 was Assistant Manager of Elswick Ordnance Works. He married May Harward in 1915, they had two sons and a daughter. 
As an officer in the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, he had a long association with HMS Calliope and saw service in WW1, returning to duty in WW2 shortly after his retirement as Commanding Officer of RNVR Tyne Division. He died suddenly during a train journey to London in April 1948, and his ashes were scattered at sea.
MB

Thanks for the information he is a relation of my wife who is a descendant of the Harwards and he is on our family tree. I wanted to know about his WW1 service and if he went to sea. But it seems he was at shore establishments as far as I can make out.

[RNCVR]

Greg, he had to get to sea as he appears to have the 1914-15 star. They could not qualify for this star with shore service.

 

Best...Bryan

[KizmeRD]

Not the first time this information has been requested on the forum - and if Michaeldr can’t help you, then it  may prove difficult uncovering very much more. 
What we do know was that he was involved in naval ordinance and that during WW1 he was doing work on behalf of the Admiralty in Italy.

MB

[KizmeRD]

E.W.Swan spent the greater part of his life in the firm of Sir W. G. Armstrong-Whitworth & Co. He had joined the firm in 1902 as an articled pupil, on leaving Harrow, and from 1910 to 1928 he was outside manager in charge of the installation of all naval gun-mountings and guns. He joined the Tyne Division of the R.N.V.R. in 1906, served in it during the war of 1914-1918, and was its commanding officer from 1929 to 1939. He retired in 1939, but rejoined for service on the outbreak of war in September of that year, and served again until November. 1945. In 1933 he became A.D.C. to King George V. 

 

That much is known, but solid details of his WW1 war service are almost completely absent from his RNVR service history sheet - other than the fact that he was released from the pay account of HMS President in order to travel to Italy the very same day that the Treaty of London was signed.
 

It’s only speculation on my part, but I rather suspect that with the approval of H.M.Government, Swan was sent abroad to assist his company’s large Italian subsidiary (Armstrong Pozzuoli) ramp up production, so that the Italian Navy was better placed to commence hostilities against Austro-Hungary and maintain offensive operations in the Adriatic. 
MB

 

And according to Harrow School register...

Swan, Ernest William {Small Houses and Mr. Marshall's), son of Col. H . P . Swan, C.B., Prudhoe Hall, Northumberland. Left 19013. Articled Pupil to Sir W. G. Armstrong, Whitworth & Co., 1902 ; Engineer Elswick Works ; Lieut. R.N.V.R. ; P.R.G.S. ; Great War, mobiUsed and appointed to H.M.S. Agincourt, Aug., 1914 ; returned to Armstrongs, 1915, in charge of gun mountings, etc., of all ships dealt with by them.

 

Edited 15 October , 2020 by KizmeRD
Added Harrow School record

[Michael Lowrey]

In the December 1914 Navy List, Swan is listed as appointed for “miscellaneous services” from August 16, 1914.

[horatio2]

2 hours ago, KizmeRD said:

Great War, mobiUsed and appointed to H.M.S. Agincourt, Aug., 1914

The Harrow register is probably in error. I think it more likely, since his first mobilised appointment was to PRESIDENT on 16 August 14 (nine days after AGINCOURT commissioned), that this refers his pre-war employment  at Armstrongs bringing AGINCOURT to completion. He was probably mobilised at Tyne Division in early August and continued to work on AGINCOURT (as builder's party) until his first appointment came through two weeks later.

[KizmeRD]

The manning of HMS Agincourt was somewhat of an improvised scramble -  in that the Navy had no advanced notice that they were acquiring her. Men were taken off the Royal Yacht and some ratings were even enlisted direct from prison! (DQ’s?). The story of the seizing of HMS Agincourt in the Tyne is told in Richard Hough’s book ‘The Great Dreadnought’.

Bearing in mind Swan’s civilian occupation working for the ship’s builders,  he was obviously intimately involved with fitting out the ship and would likely have been aboard her during her sea trials (particularly bearing in mind her non-standard armament fit). As a commissioned RNVR officer, I could well believe that due to wartime expediency he remained onboard long enough to have qualified for his 1914-15 Star. 
MB

Edited 15 October , 2020 by KizmeRD

[RNCVR]

Thanks for posting that info Kizz, being on board HMS Agincourt would certainly account for Swan's trio.

 

Also for posting Hough's book, a new one to me, must see about acquiring a copy  now!

 

Thanks & Best..

Bryan

 

PS --- I have the medal group to the Paymaster in Chief of Agincourt, he was also pulled from the Royal Yacht for Agincourt, it is my understanding (think I read it somewhere) that virtually the entire crew of RY were drafted to Agincourt to try to make up her numbers for commissioning.

Edited 15 October , 2020 by RNCVR

[Hyacinth1326]

HMS Calliope still exists as a shore base. https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/our-organisation/maritime-reserves/royal-naval-reserve/units/calliope

 

 

It may be worth contacting the unit.  I believe Hough's book was republished in 2003 as 'The Big Battleship'

Edited 16 October , 2020 by Hyacinth1326

[KizmeRD]

On 15/10/2020 at 18:47, horatio2 said:

The Harrow register is probably in error. I think it more likely, since his first mobilised appointment was to PRESIDENT on 16 August 14 (nine days after AGINCOURT commissioned), that this refers his pre-war employment  at Armstrongs bringing AGINCOURT to completion. He was probably mobilised at Tyne Division in early August and continued to work on AGINCOURT (as builder's party) until his first appointment came through two weeks later.

Nothing in the Harrow School register contradicts anything we know from other sources. His job at Elswick prior to mobilisation was described as ‘outside manager in charge of fitting of all naval gun mounts and guns’. And we know that the battleship ‘Sultan Osman-ı Evvel‘ was in the final stages of being delivered to the Ottoman navy when Churchill intervened and ordered its seizure for commissioning into the Royal Navy as HMS Agincourt. E.W.Swan would have been intensely involved in supervising the work of fitting of the ship’s 12” guns and other naval armaments (all of which was non-RN standard type). After mobilisation of the Reserves, Lt. Swan was appointed to ‘HMS President - additional for service under DNO (Director of Naval Ordinance)at works of WE Armstrong-Whitworth & Co.’.  Further conversion work was then undertaken on ‘Agincourt‘ in order to satisfy Admiralty requirements, and sea trials including gunnery exercises were conducted prior to joining the Grand Fleet at Scapa Flow. The gunnery exercises were a complete failure and a number of serious failings were identified which required remedial action. Swan would have played a central role in everything that was going on at the time and in sorting matters out. As the link-pin between the Admiralty and the shipyard, I’m pretty sure that he would have been on ‘Agincourt’ for the important sea trials and gunnery exercises. Whether he was retained onboard in order to sort out teething problems after the ship joined the 4th B.S. is unclear, but on 26th April  1915 he was removed from the books of HMS President and granted permission to proceed to Italy. His Harrow School entry States that he returned to Armstrongs. (Evidently he was immeasurably more useful to the Country and to the navy when employed in his ordinary civilian occupation).
He was promoted Lt.Cdr. RNVR 29.7.18 (with backdated seniority of 26.1.18) and honoured in the 1928 Birthday Honours list. He then went on to become CO of Tyne Division RNVR and also served in WW2 (appointed ADC to the King).
I can furnish details of the failings identified during the pre-Scapa Flow gunnery testing if required.

MB

Edited 16 October , 2020 by KizmeRD

[Enfield]

Ernest Swan was honorary curator of the Newcastle Museum of Science and Engineering from its opening in 1934 until his death in 1948 (the museum is now called Newcastle Discovery). In 1939 he found in a second hand bookshop a manuscript report book compiled by the great mining engineer Nicholas Wood (1795-1865) which is now in Tyne & Wear Archives. I should like to reproduce Swan’s portrait in a paper I am writing about the manuscript book and wish to seek clearance from the copyright holder before I do so. Perhaps he or she could get in touch with me through this forum. I'd be most grateful.

[KizmeRD]

There’s a photo of him (below) in the uniform of a Capt. RNVR that first appeared in the Newcastle Chronicle, on the occasion of a Royal Visit to Walker by the Duke & Duchess of Kent on 24 July 1936 for the launching of HMS Sheffield. He’s seen accompanying Princess Marina in front of an RNVR Honour Guard…

MB

[Enfield]

Thanks for posting such a fine photograph. It all helps to gain a greater understanding of our man.

[Bob Hubbuck]

As a side issue to Capt. E W Swan RN, He was Chairman of Hexham District Scout Association, from before 1938 and retired his chairmanship in June 1947. His son David Swan was a keen supporter.

[KizmeRD]

On 09/03/2022 at 18:31, Enfield said:

Ernest Swan was honorary curator of the Newcastle Museum of Science and Engineering from its opening in 1934 until his death in 1948 (the museum is now called Newcastle Discovery). In 1939 he found in a second hand bookshop a manuscript report book compiled by the great mining engineer Nicholas Wood (1795-1865) which is now in Tyne & Wear Archives. I should like to reproduce Swan’s portrait in a paper I am writing about the manuscript book and wish to seek clearance from the copyright holder before I do so. Perhaps he or she could get in touch with me through this forum. I'd be most grateful.

??? The portrait (in the OP) belongs to Tyne & Wear Museums Maritime and Industrial Collection.

And his medals were donated to the British Museum after his death.

MB

Edited 12 March , 2022 by KizmeRD