How common are headstones like this one...

[jay dubaya]

Most of my visits to cemeteries on the Western Front are of a virtual nature and whilst we have web sites such as Find a Grave etc they do not include those nameless graves, nor when we look at GRRFs and Headstone Schedules do we necessarily see what is actually written on a headstone. So it is with great appreciation to forum members and beyond who give their time and effort in photographing certain graves. I have to admit to having never seen or heard before what appears in the following image... I think I understand what it means, but when did these appear and I can only assume this one is not the only one.

 

[dickaren]

I also have not seen this before. The stone/engraving look very "fresh". Do you know in which cemetery this photo was taken?

Richard

[Michelle Young]

I found one of these at Loos British cemetery last year.

[Aurel Sercu]

And there is one (exactly the same) in Cement House Cemetery, Langemark

 

Aurel

P.S. Jay D., e-mail sent ...   :-)

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

This is a list of there "mortal remains" stones sent to me by CWGC back in 2019 (there is an "undeliberate mistake" in the list, as Frajohn and Jennie know to their cost   >

Tom

 

"Hi Tom

There are now graves in the following cemeteries which are set aside for the burial of unidentifiable fragmentary remains:

 

Arnhem (Oosterbeek) War Cemetery

Buttes New British Cemetey

Cement House Cemetery

Coxyde Military Cemetery

New Irish Farm Cemetery

Brown’s Copse Cemetery

Flatiron Copse Cemetery

Guards’ Cemetery, Lesboeufs

La Delivrande War Cemetery

Loos British Cemetery

Becklingen War Cemetery

Arezzo War Cemetery

 

The headstones are inscribed as

 

HERE LIE THE MORTAL

REMAINS OF SOME OF

THOSE WHO FELL LOCALLY

DURING THE 1914-18 WAR  (*or 1939-45 if appropriate)

AND WHOSE
IDENTITY IS UNKNOWN

 

Hope that helps"

[Michelle Young]

The one at Loos. There had  obviously been  an interment  of remains recent to my visit, as the ground was sunken in front of the stone.

[Guest]

Are these for "bits and pieces" of bones recovered or handed in which cannot even get near  being considered a complete "body"?????

[Wexflyer]

Seems to be that there is also an implication that the remains - of whatever nature - cannot be identified as "British".

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

16 minutes ago, Wexflyer said:

Seems to be that there is also an implication that the remains - of whatever nature - cannot be identified as "British".

 

I asked some time ago about the policy explanation for these stones - here is the reply >

 

"Is there a policy statement or similar explaining why these stones have come about ?

Due to the nature of 20th century conflict it is not uncommon for our staff and members of the public to come across fragments of bone in areas which were once battlefields. Where it is not possible to determine anything about them, beyond the fact that they are human and likely to be from a casualty of the First or Second World War, CWGC will arrange for their dignified burial in one of our cemeteries. This has always happened, but more recently, due to the increase in such finds we have formalised the process and marked the sites. Whilst we maintain an internal record of such interments, as the amount of the remains is so small, they are not registered graves."

 

The progressive burial of these finds is interesting. As I understand it the first burial will be made in front of the stone, then there will be a grid pattern working away from that point with successive burials moving away from the stone to occupy whatever space is available - ie the same spot will not be re-dug.

Tom

 

 

[Frajohn]

Tom M refers " there is an "undeliberate mistake" in the list, as Frajohn and Jennie know to their cost" to the fact that there is not one of these headstones in Flatiron Copse Cemetery, after a couple of hours walking up and down, up and down etc.

 

This is Guards’ Cemetery, Lesboeufs, taken by Tom M

 

 

This one is at Brown's Copse Cemetery

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jay dubaya]

The image I posted is indeed at Cement House Cemetery and only jumped out because there are only 4 headstones marked in the report form.  
So these headstone are 21st century additions to the above cemeteries? - thanks for the posting another pic Michelle and thanks for adding the list Tom 👍
My thought was that these would be fragmentary remains and will also include French, German etc. The wording is quite neutral in this respect and leaves it open to interpretation as to what remains of what nationality. One wonders how many fragments warrant a burial of this kind.

So what of the recent post Armistice unidentifiable fragmentary remains, what happened to those?
The answer is in a copy of undated Revised Instructions (Records Branch) - CWCG/1/1/5/27.
‘They should be buried in a spot where there will be no interferences with ‘construction’. A grave space will not be used. An office note should be kept showing where remains were found and actual of the spot when reburied’.

So these ‘spots’ were never formerly marked? 
Anyone know of any cemeteries that indicate or record such burials?

Thanks for adding more images Frajohn and for pointing out the mistake 👍
 

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

22 hours ago, jay dubaya said:

... My thought was that these would be fragmentary remains and will also include French, German etc. The wording is quite neutral in this respect and leaves it open to interpretation as to what remains of what nationality. One wonders how many fragments warrant a burial of this kind.

 

... So what of the recent post Armistice unidentifiable fragmentary remains, what happened to those?
The answer is in a copy of undated Revised Instructions (Records Branch) - CWCG/1/1/5/27.
‘They should be buried in a spot where there will be no interferences with ‘construction’. A grave space will not be used. An office note should be kept showing where remains were found and actual of the spot when reburied’.

So these ‘spots’ were never formerly marked? 
Anyone know of any cemeteries that indicate or record such burials?

 

With regards to the first point - these stones are a "recent" addition and the advice that I have had is that more may be added in other cemeteries if there are regional build-ups of handed in bones. The reason why I first enquired about the raison d'être for these stones starting to appear was that I couldn't understand why these should become necessary a century after the war - discrete burials of minor battlefield bone finds previously having been accepted de facto as an entirely appropriate way of dealing with things.

 

My own feeling is that these "mortal remains" stones are a knee-jerk over-reaction to a situation which has somehow come / been drawn to the Commission's attention' Its a bit like many of the Blue Badge cemetery entrance signs which do absolutely nothing to assist the disabled and are simply a blight on the cemetery's architecture. Incorporate some perceived "responsibility" into somebody's job description and there is a great danger (especially in non-commercial situations) that they will go completely over-the-top and start doing things for the sake of doing them. Not my hill to die on, but I find these "new" stones to be quite unjustified.

 

With regards to the second point - as I note above, discrete reburials have previously sufficed. The mortal remains stone burials could literally be any kind of partial bone remains deemed to be human and found in a battlefield area - French, German, British, Commonwealth or Dominion, military or civilian, Brazilian, Libyan, Mexican, etc etc etc - could be anyone from almost any era.

 

"Anyone know of any cemeteries that indicate or record such burials?" -  I don't. Suggest you ask CWGC and post any response here.

Tom

[jay dubaya]

I do find them an odd addition some 80 years later and especially now knowing what happened to the discovery of similar remains back then. The potential for many/most cemeteries to have an unmarked spot where these remains were reburied is staggering, I also suspect these spots are long forgotten.

[Marilyne]

Interesting topic. 

I'll normally (COVID permits.. some changes afoot here in Belgium) be in Koksijde at the end of the month and I'll go and take a picture of the stone over there.

If any other pics from the cemetery are needed, just holler. 

 

M.