Ambulance train.

[Gracie w]

Could anyone tell me how I could find out what number Ambulance train someone went on in WW1.

[TEW]

You would have to supply more info. His name, number & unit would enable members to look for any records of a wounding which might then lead to an AT number.

 

Failing that if EG. a CCS then a base hospital was known the AT inbetween making the journey could be reduced to a handful or if lucky just one.

 

Have you checked this topic?

 

The above is the only AT with surviving records. AT diaries only mention (if at all) individuals who either died en route or had a high rank or had to be restrained or injured themselves further.

 

TEW

 

Welcome along BTW. First post?

Edited 12 October , 2020 by TEW

[Gracie w]

Thanks for help. This was my Father and the picture what units he was in in WW1. ( I know it’s prob. Unusual to have a Father from WW1)

he was in his 50’s when I was born.. 

I did some research years ago but over time all has been mislaid , so now trying to gather info for my children , grandchildren etc.

[D Rider]

I found some photos (on a well known auction site) of ambo trains if you want me to put them on here?

[IPT]

He joined the 1st Battalion Norfolk Regiment  30th June 1918 when the battalion were in the "Right Sub Sector".

 

 

He is recorded as being wounded on 23rd August 1918 in the Achiet-le-Petit area.

 

 

You can download the war diary for free, by registering - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352281

[TEW]

Gracie,

 

From the medal card information I can tell you there are two results for him in records of admissions and discharges to medical units.

 

1. 1917 admitted Millbank

2. 1918 admitted 14 Field Ambulance

 

Unfortunately despite offering up the above I can't actually view the original records which will contain more information.

 

The record for his admission into 14 Field Ambulance will show how they disposed of him. That may be by ambulance train and a number given or they sent him onto a CCS.

 

He also has a service record held at The National Archives in WO339. That may also have medical evacuation information.

 

I note IPT's reply.

TEW

[IPT]

I don't subscribe to FindmyPast, but he has two entries in medical registers - https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?sourcecategory=armed forces %26 conflict&firstname="a e"&lastname=cosham&datasetname=british armed forces%2c first world war soldiers' medical records&sourcecountry=great britain&sid=999

[TEW]

Ancestry diaries playing up at present but it looks like 14FA were running a Main Dressing Station and a walking wounded post.

 

They mention MAC cars taking 4 hours to make the round trip to CCS so not looking promising for an AT being involved although later there is some involvement with a railhead.

TEW

 

 

[Gracie w]

Thank you so much for your helpful replies. 

[TEW]

It seems likely from the above that sometime after his 23/8/18 injury he would have been evacuated by an ambulance train.

 

His service record from The National Archives or the 14 Field Ambulance record in a previous reply might give an AT number although I think they are more likely to give the details of a casualty clearing station.

 

Once you know which CCS he was treated in, working out an ambulance train becomes easier.

 

Getting the service record from TNA is difficult at present. So possibly the only option at the moment is to register with find my past. They have a pay as you go system. Unless you have the service record somewhere?

TEW

[Gracie w]

Further to my question about Ambulance train, this is a picture / post card which was on my Father when shot in 1917 (and a pic. of my Father at that time)

[TEW]

Nice photo and an unusual memento!

 

I checked the 1st Norfolk's diary and he is listed as wounded 7/8/17. They had taken over the line in front of Oppy Wood and on the 7th one of A company's posts was attacked, 1 man killed, 3 wounded.

TEW

[Gracie w]

Thank you so much for this information. On the other side of the postcard was a picture of his 1 st wife. (Bit of useless info. for you! ) I’ve lots of photos of him in uniform, when he was in the West Kent Yeomanry .

 

 

 

 

Edited 16 October , 2020 by Gracie w
Left something out

[PRC]

The MiC itself shows him landing at Gallipoli on the 24th September 1915, almost certanly with the 1/1st West Kent Yeomanry – although that is the date they sailed from Liverpool.

 

1/1st West Kent Yeomanry

 

Under command of the South Eastern Mounted Brigade.

August 1914 : moved with the brigade to Canterbury.

24 September 1915 : dismounted, the brigade sailed from Liverpool to Gallipoli, landing on 8 October 1915 and coming under orders of 42nd (East Lancashire) Division.

January 1916 : withdrew from Gallipoli and moved to Mudros.

February 1916 : moved to Egypt where brigade was absorbed into 3rd Dismounted Brigade on Suez Canal defences.

July 1916 : brigade moved to join the Western Frontier Force.

1 February 1917 : with East Kent Yeomanry formed 10th Bn, the Buffs and came under orders of 230th Brigade in 74th (Yeomanry) Division.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-yeomanry-regiments-of-1914-1918/west-kent-yeomanry-queens-own/

 

The War Diary for the time they were at Gallipoli can be seen online only at Ancestry. Unfortunately the ones for Egypt and Palestine aren’t available online.

 

I don’t know if it adds anything but the East Kent Regiment number, 270620, would have come from the Territorial Force renumbering at the start of 1917 or later.  Long, Long Trail shows the number block 265001 to 275000 was allocated to the 10th Battalion.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

 

10th (Royal East Kent and West Kent Yeomanry) Battalion

Formed at Sollum in Egypt on 1 February 1917 from two dismounted Yeomanry Regiments.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/buffs-east-kent-regiment/

 

The MiC shows him commissioned on the 30th May 1917 and I suspect he would have been back in the UK for an Officer Training Course for 6-8 weeks before that.

 

11 hours ago, TEW said:

I checked the 1st Norfolk's diary and he is listed as wounded 7/8/17. They had taken over the line in front of Oppy Wood and on the 7th one of A company's posts was attacked, 1 man killed, 3 wounded.

 

7th August 1917 – Battalion War Diary

 

One of ‘A’ Coys posts attacked in early morning under cover of mists and tall grass. Enemy bombed the post killing one man and wounding 3 others, and succeeded in capturing the other man alive.

 

The Commowealth War Graves Commission, (CWGC), website shows two men as having died on the 7th August 1917 while serving with the 1st Battalion.

 

Private 202840 Thomas William Brown, who is buried at Duisans British Cemetery, Etrun.

(Soldiers Died in the Great War, (SDGW), records him as Died of Wounds – his entry in the Army Register of Soldiers Effects on Ancestry may show where)

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/168876/

 

The CWGC webpage for that cemetery adds “Duisans is a village in the Department of the Pas-de-Calais, about 9 kilometres west of Arras. The Cemetery takes its name from the nearby village of Duisans although it technically lies in the Commune of Etrun.

 

The area around Duisans was occupied by Commonwealth forces from March 1916, but it was not until February 1917 that the site of this cemetery was selected for the 8th Casualty Clearing Station. The first burials took place in March and from the beginning of April the cemetery grew very quickly, with burials being made from the 8th Casualty Clearing Station (until April 1918), the 19th (until March 1918), and the 41st (until July 1917).

 

Most of the graves relate to the Battles of Arras in 1917, and the trench warfare that followed. From May to August 1918, the cemetery was used by divisions and smaller fighting units for burials from the front line."

Source: https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/4300/DUISANS BRITISH CEMETERY, ETRUN/

 

The other soldier was Private 29371 Arthur Wright who is buried at Roclincourt Military Cemetery.

(Soldiers Died in the Great War records him as Killed in Action).

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/526479/

 

"Roclincourt is a village a little to the east of the road from Arras to Lens. The French troops who held this front before March 1916 made a military cemetery (now removed), on the south-west side of which the present Commonwealth cemetery was made. It was begun by the 51st (Highland) and 34th Divisions in April 1917, and contains many graves of 9 April, the first day of the Battles of Arras. It continued in use, as a front-line cemetery, until October 1918."

https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/58500/ROCLINCOURT MILITARY CEMETERY/

 

The 1917 Medical record on FindMyPast shows that 2nd Lieutenant A E Cosham, 1st Norfolks, was admitted to the Queen Alexandras Military Hospital at Millbank on the 23rd August 1917. He was suffering with a GSW to the chest (IV) and discharged after 22 days to what looks to be an Aux. H. (Auxillary Hospital?) at Blackpool – but the Aux H could potentially relate to the line above in the register. He was then aged 21, had been in the Army for 3 years 6 months and had served 1 month with the Field Force.

 

I checked the Battalion War Diary from May 1917 onwards – there is a summary at the end of each month of Arrivals and Departures, with officers being named. I can’t find a reference to him joining the Battalion.  The entry at the end of August under Departures includes:-

 

(Courtesy of the National Archive)

 

On 13/10/2020 at 17:19, IPT said:

He joined the 1st Battalion Norfolk Regiment  30th June 1918 when the battalion were in the "Right Sub Sector".

 

 

He is recorded as being wounded on 23rd August 1918 in the Achiet-le-Petit area.

 

 

 

23rd August 1918 – Battalion War Diary

 

Achiet-Le-Petit

 

In conjunction with Divisions on right and left the battn attacked the ARRAS ALBERT Railway and took up position on East Side of Railway, where 13th Infantry Brigade came through. All objectives gained.

2Lt A.E. Cosham wounded. Casualties to other ranks slight.

 

Operational Order No. 51.

 

1.     An attack by the whole Army will be carried out today. 5th Division will attack on a 2 Brigade Front, 95th Brigade on Right = 15th Brigade on Left.

2.     15th Infantry Brigade will attack behind a creeping barrage, and will be disposed as follows :=

(a)   16th Royal Warwicks on right.

(b)  1st Bedfords on left, with 2 Companies in front line = 1 in support and 1 in reserve, on their left 200 yards behind the support Company.

Left boundary of Bedfords will be ACHIET-LE-PETIT = GREVILLERS Road running through G.15. a, c, d and G. 21.b.

3.     1st Norfolks will remain in their trenches until 16th Royal Warwicks and Bedfords have reached the Railway; when they will advance to it and stop there. Cheshires will not move from their present positions unless ordered by Brigade Headquarters.

4.     The Battalion will advance in two lines in Artillery formation = front line “D” on right = “C” on left. Companies to move on frontage of 200 yards. Interval between Companies = 100 yards. Distance from rear of front line to support line = 50 yards. Battalion Headquarters will remain in our present front line trench until “A” and “B” Companies are clear and then follow 50 yards in rear of “A” Company.

5.     The Signal for ZERO hour and for the 1st Bedfords and 16th Royal warwicks to advance will be the opening of the artillery barrage which will be about 11.0.a.m.

6.     On arrival at the Railway line “C” and “D” Companies will hold it on a 500 yard front – “A” and “B” will halt in close support.

7.     37th Division will not start in line with the left of the Bedfords till they get up in line. “C” Company’s Lewis Guns will help to cover the Bedfords left. Detailed instructions will be given to O.C. “C” Company for carrying this out, and also for getting his Company into position before the advance.

8.     As many picks and shovels as possible are to be carried forward by Companies – extra tools will be issued by arrangement made by the R.S.M.

9.     Each man will carry 220 rounds and (as far as they will go) 1 Mills Bomb. Full water bottles and unexpended portion of the rations will be carried.  Company Commanders will equalise the supply of magazines to Lewis Guns as far as possible.

10.  Battalion Headquarters and Companies will take forward all S.O.S. Rockets they have.

11.  Dressing Station to be moved forward to our present front line after the Battalion has cleared it.

12.  ACKNOWLEDGE.

 

23=8=18 (Sd) F.J. FIELD, Lieutenant, A/Adjutant, 1st Battalion, The Norfolk Regt.

(The commanding officer and the adjutant had died of wounds the previous day).

 

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission lists 10 men of the 1st Norfolks as having died on the 23rd August 1918. However they had been in action since the 21st, so some could have died from wounds incurred previously.

 

Sergeant 200525 Herbert Arthur Alderton C Company (SDGW - Killed in Action), buried Adanac Military Cemetery, Miraumont.

Private 41490 Charles Edward Baker, (SDGW - Killed in Action), body recovered from a Battlefield burial in 1919, original location map reference Sheet 57c.G.14.a.6.4.

Corporal 6938 Edward Jones, B Company (SDGW - Killed in Action), body recovered from the Battlefield postwar, original location Sheet 57c.L.10.c.2.3.

Private 41079 Arthur Ernest Leonard, (SDGW - Killed in Action), no known grave, on the Vis-en-Artois Memorial.

Lance-Corporal 16787 Alfred George Long, (SDGW - Killed in Action), no known grave, on the Vis-en-Artois Memorial.

Private 41914 Robert Parker, (SDGW - Killed in Action), no known grave, on the Vis-en-Artois Memorial.

Private 41009 Richard Russell, (SDGW - Killed in Action), no known grave, on the Vis-en-Artois Memorial.

Private 37257 Godfrey William Spracklan, (SDGW - Killed in Action), body recovered from a Battlefield burial in 1919, original location map reference Sheet 57c.G.14.a.6.4.

Private 204244 Bertie Samuel Whitmore, (SDGW - Died of Wounds), buried Bagneux British Cemetery, Gezaincourt.

The CWGC webpage for that Cemetery adds "At the end of March (1918), the 3rd, 29th and 56th Casualty Clearing Stations moved to Gezaincourt, where they were joined for a short time in April by the 45th. They remained until September. "

 

For comparison the Grave Registration reports for Baker and Spracklan show that the Achiet-Le-Grand Communal Cemetery is at map reference sheet 57c.G.3.d.5.5.

 

Hope some of that helps,

Peter

 

Edited 16 October , 2020 by PRC
Typo

[IPT]

A few bits I thought i'd posted last night...

 

 

Great pictures.

 

You may already have all this, but he was treated at Queen Alexandra's Military Hospital At Millbank after he was shot in the chest.

 

 

It looks like he was then sent to the Samuelson Hospital, along with some other officers on the list.  Apparently, this was opened by Mrs Samuelson at her home at 58 Grosvenor Street, London?

 

 

After he was wounded in 1918, he was treated by 14th Field Ambulance.

 

[Gracie w]

Thank you once again for your replies. I knew from the date on postcard (1917) he’d been wounded but didn’t know he had also been wounded in 1918. He was a lovely man and Father, never had any conversations about the wars with him. In WW2 he was in the home guard in Leicester.

[Gracie w]

Would anyone be able to tell me if this picture could have been taken where officers where being trained. I have this photo with others of my Fathers, I don’t know where it is but the photographer is an Oxford one. Thanks.

[PRC]

54 minutes ago, Gracie w said:

Would anyone be able to tell me if this picture could have been taken where officers where being trained.

 

The white cap band being worn by the vast majority of men present in this picture shows them to be officer cadets. The instructors are in the first seated row.

According to the Long Long Trail, Officer Cadet Battalion 4 was at Oxford, while 6 was at Balliol College, Oxford.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/training-to-be-a-soldier/officer-training-in-the-british-army-of-1914-1918/

 

C Company of No.4 Battalion were at Keble College.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/world-war-1/places/keble-college

 

Pictures of No.6 Battalion can be seen here https://www.flickr.com/photos/balliolarchivist/collections/72157625974483978/

 

Can't see a background in the pictures that matches your picture but I've only had a quick scan - and of course could be one of the other Companys of 4 Battalion.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[Gracie w]

Thank you so much for this info. I really wouldn’t have had a clue where to start. Once Again, many thanks.