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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Pattern 1914 rear volley sight variant


Mickster

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I never spotted this before. Going through my spares box I spotted an unusual rear volley sight, The boss that retains the bolt stop spring & forms the base of the peep hole sight is flush with the sight arm whereas all the other examples I have have spring stops raised higher.

See photo with inserted red pointer 
 

DSC04870.JPG

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That's interesting. I will check mine next time I have them out. I certainly have never noticed this - and it's not mentioned in Skip Stratton's book (I just checked!)

Chris

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Yes its interesting Chris. I see a lot of minor variations on P 14 parts but its usually down to the whoever was operating the milling machines or linishers. This instance is a definite design variation. Even the dog leg that meets the rotating boss takes a different sweep.,, 

Maybe I should hold on to this one. It was on the fatso Eddystone and it and the range scale had all the appearances of being there forever.

 

Edited by Mickster
Rouge 'm' due to peanut butter on digit finger
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One of the reasons Britain ended up officially with 3 marks of P14... the P14 MkI(E), P14 MkI (R) and P14 MkI(W) rather than one mark with three manufacturers was precisely because of manufacturing differences which the inspectors thought were sufficient to mean key components may not have been interchangeable but as you say this (and of course the "fatso" stock) were more than minor manufacturing variations. I believe one of the concerns expressed about the Eddystone stocks was they may not pack correctly  in the standard shipping crates.

There certainly seems to be more variation in P14 components than is generally the case with ShtLE components.

Cheers

Chris

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Another thought I have Chris is about just when did the variations become apparent and was it then that the 3 companies started applying their E or W or R as I have a fair few parts from sling swivels to mag floor plates or butt plates unmarked, some have the odd unrelated letter or number and a few have a little triangle stamping,

Cheers

Mike

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As far as the British inspectors were concerned from day 1 I think, which led to a large number of the earlier rifles being marked EY and stamped with a maltese cross,  but I am not entirely sure that is what led to the component marking (that happened on US weapons prior to this I think) I too have seen lots of unmarked components - I am not sure to what extent sub-contractors were used to produce non critical / non pressure bearing components like sling swivels/butt plates etc. I need to read in a bit more detail on P14s as I admit I have a stack of books which I use for reference but have yet to read properly.... darned work gets in the way!

Luke Mercaldo's book on Allied Rifle Contracts in the US is good on this sort of detail. I need to sit down with that again.

Chris

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I've noted Mercaldo's book Chris. I shall try to obtain a copy. Like yourself its finding the time to read them. I seem to 'snatch' read these days as in looking through the index for whatever appears relevant to my whims.

Stay safe,  the virus is bringing up the special reserves.

Mike

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Pictures of P14s in WWI service are quite hard to find - I snap them up whenever I see them and I think I probably have only found 4 or 5 in the last decade. I have never found one that I can definitively say was taken in France.  Almost all appear to be training units in the UK.

 

This one (very recently acquired) includes Brodie Helmets - but the absence of gas masks and the style of huts makes me think it is in the UK -- interesting to see the unit though...... RFA.

p14s.jpg.f143a4e758e15653f61b5540fcbf19c0.jpg

 

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Great photo Chris. Is it ok if I save it.

You are right about the scarcity of P14 photos. I recently sold a rear volley sight to a chap in Czech Republic and he has a lot of photos of them in action, different conflict of course. 

I struggle to find decent photos of the wire cutters on the SMLE's. They are my current obsession having acquired a pair still in situ on a mark111*. The rifle also with fixed bayonet ploughed to the surface and in mind boggling preservation near Ypres.

I will make it my quest to seek out the illusive P14 images.

Michael.

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  • 1 year later...
On 12/10/2020 at 22:41, Mickster said:

I never spotted this before. Going through my spares box I spotted an unusual rear volley sight, The boss that retains the bolt stop spring & forms the base of the peep hole sight is flush with the sight arm whereas all the other examples I have have spring stops raised higher.

See photo with inserted red pointer 
 

DSC04870.JPG

Hi @Mickster

 

Hope you don’t mind me asking but do you know where I can get a volley sight set for a P14? I have a p14 and would like to out the volleys back on it, I have the front dial plate, and although it appears to have been ‘weedon’d’ it doesn’t have the weedon mark (that I can find)

thanks

ed

Edited by MrEd
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@MrEd Sorry about the delay in replying to your query. I just found your post by chance. Normally I receive a notification but not in this case.

I Think I do have a full volley sight set still here although it may consist of parts from the 3 American manufacturers parts marked with the Eddystone 'E' Remington 'R' or the Winchester 'W'. Let me get back to you with what I have when I return home shortly. Most parts markings are usually hidden when installed but hey as each part was interchangeable they no doubt fitted replacements without matching back in the day in any case. 

Mickster

Edited by Mickster
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12 hours ago, Mickster said:

@MrEd Sorry about the delay in replying to your query. I just found your post by chance. Normally I receive a notification but not in this case.

I Think I do have a full volley sight set still here although it may consist of parts from the 3 American manufacturers parts marked with the Eddystone 'E' Remington 'R' or the Winchester 'W'. Let me get back to you with what I have when I return home shortly. Most parts markings are usually hidden when installed but hey as each part was interchangeable they no doubt fitted replacements without matching back in the day in any case. 

Mickster

Hi Mickster,

 

thankd you - a couple of members messaged me with some leads and I found one from Raids militaria :) so all sorted!

 

thanks

ed

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Brilliant Ed, Jim at Raids is a friend , tell him Michael McEvoy says hello

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3 hours ago, Mickster said:

Brilliant Ed, Jim at Raids is a friend , tell him Michael McEvoy says hello

Will do :) 

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If anyone has a lead on the BEAD for the front pointer I would much appreciate a pointer in the right direction - I have a Winchester MkI which has the pointer arm but is missing the bead (the thread on the arm looks good so just need the bead.  I've looked off and on for a couple of years.

Chris

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I ‘de-weedoned’ my Enfield P14 with a very nicely made repro pointer, screw and spring from a company called EFD Rifles. (They also made SMLE parts) Unfortunately they seem to have since gone out of  business.

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7 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

If anyone has a lead on the BEAD for the front pointer I would much appreciate a pointer in the right direction - I have a Winchester MkI which has the pointer arm but is missing the bead (the thread on the arm looks good so just need the bead.  I've looked off and on for a couple of years.

Chris

Try John at DS Solutions (UK based) as he does repro volley sights and may be able to do just the ‘pip’

https://www.ds-solutions.co.uk

or an alternative would be yet try a shotgun bead sight - you may find one that will thread straight it (or epoxy in)

like this

https://www.ant-supplies.uk/scopes-sights-optics/shotgun-mid-rib-bead-sights.html

Or something like these brass ones? You could blacken them?

F9F8CE7E-9753-4B4E-BE37-1FCBC813F389.jpeg.7d6ca5e7bbe0241c8bbcb302556b6a27.jpeg
 

a gunsmith maybe able to fit one, or adapt one to fit?

 

ed

 

 

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2 hours ago, peregrinvs said:

I ‘de-weedoned’ my Enfield P14 with a very nicely made repro pointer, screw and spring from a company called EFD Rifles. (They also made SMLE parts) Unfortunately they seem to have since gone out of  business.


yeah the owner died, his grandson carried it on for a bit but I haven’t been able to get a response from them and the website hasn’t been updated for a number of years :(

my p14 has no stamped evidence of weedon repair, the butt stock marking is still readable (as are other inspection marks) so I don’t think the wood has been refinished/sanded. it also retains its butt disc but was missing the volley sight arms, but the dial plate and screw thread is intact.

I thought I would get the bits while they are still available then there is the option either way - as made, or as per weedon!

ed

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Arrived yesterday from Raids militaria and fitted today, almost perfect patina to match my rifle.

B75F52C3-8C8B-484C-921B-5192A7FEE3B7.jpeg.04cb3a506637036dc7f043b30dc5dba2.jpeg

7363B31A-444E-446B-86DF-0859E1E63AC0.jpeg.b2935cec7e3bfd4f3f59f298e3d74982.jpeg

 

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