listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

 

I was checking some site and found this Cemetery showing the names of a number of German and Austrians buried there or a stone with there names on it?

 

The Germans I have found most didn't die in Palestine, only the possible Austrians are unconfirmed?

 

I'll list here to see what we can find?

 

Bacher Friedrich    unknown     possibly KUK    unknown    (listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery) 

 

Bacher Gotthilf    Musketier    146th Regt - 1Bn - 3Co - Infanterie-Regiment 146    1917-18    (1898 at Jerusalem Palästina DoD 27-5-18) Krankheit (illness) (listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery) 

 

Canaan Madia (Wadia)    Lt    Deutsche Maschinengewehr-Abteilung der Heersgruppe F HQ/601st MG Bn    1916-18     (1884 at Bet-Dschala Jerusalem DoW date?) schwer verwundet (badly wounded) in Gefschaft (in prison) possibly PoW (listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery) 

 

Einsler Friedrich    Lt    4Co/Infanterie-Regiment 186    unknown    (born at Jerusalem Palästina DoW 1915?) schwer verwundet (badly wounded) listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery Ex Unteroffizier Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 201 leicht verwundet (minor wounded) WIA 1914 

 

Heimann Heinrich    unknown     possibly KUK    unknown    (listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery) 

 

Imberger Wilhelm    Pte    Infanterie-Regiment 124    unknown    (born at Jerusalem Palästina DoW 1915?) schwer verwundet (badly wounded) listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery - Württemberg

 

Keller Georg    unknown     possibly KUK    unknown    (listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery) 

 

Nathusius Siegfried von    Lt deR    8Co/Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 209    unknown    (born at Barmen DoW date?) bisher schwer verwundet (badly wounded) listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery - from Gren Regt No 2 - shown VzFeldwebel schwer verwundet (badly wounded) WIA 1914 

 

Salomon Moses    unknown     possibly KUK    unknown    (listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery) 

 

Sandel Paul    Lt deR    6Co/Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 69    unknown    (born at Jerusalem Palästina DoD date?) Krankheit (illness) listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery

 

Schoenecke Ludwig    Unteroffizier Artz     5Co/Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 48    unknown    (born at Jerusalem Palästina DoW date?) feinen wunden (died from wounds) at FeldLaz 64  listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery) 

 

Stahl Albert    unknown     possibly KUK    unknown    (listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery) 

 

Stütz Paul     unknown     possibly KUK    unknown    (listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery) 

 

Weller Oskar (Oscar)    Gefr    8Co/Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 122    unknown    (born at Jerusalem Palästina died date?) vermißt MIA possibly PoW listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery - Württemberg

 

Wieland Walter    Lt deR    Unit unknown    1917-18    (born at Jerusalem Palästina died 6-5-18) vermißt MIA possibly PoW listed on the Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery
 

Most Germans appear to be born in Palestine and were possibly Jews, so our friends in Israel maybe able to help here?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

[michaeldr]

Re your last point Steve:

 

Germans 'born in Palestine' could refer to members of the Christian Templer sect

(Tempelgesellschaft in Deutschland) who settled in the country from 1867 onwards.

 

You are very unlikely to find Jewish graves in a Protestant cemetery.

(and similarly, unlikely to find Protestant graves in a Jewish cemetery)

Edited 26 September , 2020 by michaeldr

[Guest]

Mate,

 

yes I was thinking the same then I saw Moses Solomon, and wondered what the ***.

 

There was a number of large German groups in Palestine before the war, many German Jews.

 

The Christian Templer sect sounds interesting I 'll check them out.

 

Cheers

 

S.B

[michaeldr]

You should find plenty of material in Australia on this Christian community as during WW2 those living in Palestine were deported to there. In July 1941 665 Germans from Palestine (at the time they were enemy aliens) were sent to Tatura, Victoria, Australia. The last Templers left Palestine/Israel in 1950.

(see 'From Desert Sands to Golden Oranges' by Helmut Glenk, etc.)

Edited 27 September , 2020 by michaeldr

[michaeldr]

13 hours ago, michaeldr said:

'From Desert Sands to Golden Oranges' by Helmut Glenk, etc.

 

Whilst you're looking at German casualties, the above book is useful with particular respect to the German settlers from Jaffa and Sarona

see Appendix 4 which lists the following:

 

Johannes Baldenhofer 9-11/6/1915 Arras,

Hermann Johannes Eppinger 17/4/1917 Bouchain,

Johann Jacob Daniel Groezinger 20/9/1920 Nazareth,

Friedrick Jung 1/11/1918 Hayder-Pascha,

Johannes Laemmle 5/10/1918 Aleppo,

Jacob Mayer (or Maier [a non-Templer]) 13/1/1918 Nazareth,

Christian Orth 29/8/1915 Ostrow,

Samuel Scheerle 30/6/1915 Serbia,

Samuel Sickinger 16/8/1916 Karabaden,

Peter von Ustinov 13/7/1917 Ypres,

Karl Wagner 31/10/1914 Messines,

Philipp Hermann Wagner 31/10/1914 Messines,

Theodor Wagner 24/8/1916 Somme,

Christian Weiss [no further details]

Johannes Wennagel (jnr) 31/10/1914 Messines,

Karl Alfred Theodore Wolfer 27/8/1916 Beaumonte,

Edited 27 September , 2020 by michaeldr

[Eran Tearosh]

Hi 

 

Well, quite a lot to write about this.....

 

To begin with - Steve, which cemetery you are referring to? 

 

Following Michael's lead, I'll start with the Templers. The Templers (19th centaury German protestant sect) have their own Jerusalem cemetery, and there's a monument there dedicated to members of the local (land of Israel / Palestine) Templers who volunteered, fought and died during their service (As far as I know - all in Europe). However, not for those of the local Jerusalem colony! 

 

 

 

As we know, things have to be complicated... This stone was brought here from the Jaffa area (Sarona), after the Templer cemetery there was evacuated (Together with the Military Indian cemetery of Sarona). Here's a photo from the original cemetery.

 

 

In addition, in the Jerusalem Templer cemetery includes also this:

 

 

 

Not a very well known place, although it's really in the center of one of the nicest and populated parts of Jerusalem. It's hiding behind walls....

By the way - another Templer Great War monument is in Haifa, just next to the British & Indian cemeteries there. 

 

There are some Germans buried at the British Commonwealth War cemetery on Mt. Scopus, but most likely that's not what you're after...

 

I'll write separately about the other cemetery.

 

 

Eran 

 

[Eran Tearosh]

 

The other place (my guess is that's the one you're after) is on Mt. Zion. 

 

For history geeks, the Protestant Cemetery of Mt. Zion is probably one of the most incredible places to visit. It's a journey to meet some of the greatest names connected to the history, exploration and construction of Jerusalem. Not open to a casual visit, but it is possible to coordinate a visit (I visit there quite often...)

 

Here's a link to some basic info about the place (with reference to the soldiers buried there, although I don't think they have the numbers right):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Zion_Cemetery,_Jerusalem

 

And look at this site:

https://www.graves.mountzion.org.il/protestant-cemetery/

 

 

 

This is where the German pilots are buried. One of the plaques on the walls is dedicated in honor of the local Jerusalem Templers who died during the war (and, of course, died and are buried elsewhere). 

 

Steve, I hope I covered the issue.... I can't get there at this time (Covid-19 lockdown.... the second one here) but if you need something more specific - let me know and I'll see what I can do

 

Eran 

 

 

Edited 27 September , 2020 by Eran Tearosh

[Guest]

Eran,

 

Sorry mate Yes I wrote Jerusalem Mount Zion Protestant Cemetery and yes it has many interesting people in there including Finders Petrie.

 

The names are shown on the memorial panel but no details on these name

 

"Memorial listing the names of the Jerusalemites of all faiths killed in WWI fighting in the German or Austro-Hungarian forces."

 

* Until January 1917 the German Imperial Army laid out a section of the cemetery as a non-denominational war cemetery for Austro-Hungarian (5), British (2) and German soldiers (11) of all religious denominations killed in action in the battles close to Jerusalem since 1916 and retrieved by the German medical corps"

 

and

 

"After the British capture of Jerusalem on 9 December 1917 the British army also buried its soldiers on Mount Zion Cemetery, before the separate Jerusalem War Cemetery was inaugurated on Mount Scopus in February 1918.^[30] A total of 104 British soldiers were buried here, of which 100 were later reburied at the War Cemetery,^[31] although four who died between the Armistice of November 1918 and the end of Commonwealth War Graves Commission registration in August 1921 remained maintained there.^[30]"

 

I found the names of the Germans, but the KUK soldiers I can't find a site like the Verlustlisten 1. Weltkrieg where you can check Austrians by name?

 

Clearly most but not all of the Germans were not killed in Palestine and as the Austrians don't record the losses in Turkey/Palestine finding any names is hard?

 

Cheers

S.B

Edited 27 September , 2020 by stevebecker

[Eran Tearosh]

 

I have someone in the Israeli WWI society who worked quite a lot on the Austro-Hungarian contingent. I'll check with him and return to you. 

I can also chat to a 80+ years old Germen Doctor, who is the number one expert on the German forces here, and I think knows quite a bit about the Austro-Hungarians too. 

 

I'm a bit confused here. Are you referring to the actual burial there (Mt. Zion), or to the names on the plaque?

If it's burials - As I wrote before, I'm not sure these numbers (5 Austro-Hungarian, 2 British and 11 German soldiers) are correct.

As far as I remember - there are 28 burials there, among them 6 pilots. 

The buried there include Protestants, Catholics and one Jew (Most likely Salomon Moses). 

 

As to those who were born in Jerusalem (buried or mentioned) - definitely Templers, i.e. Protestants  

 

Eran

[Guest]

Eran,

 

Mate I am only going by the what the site said, and yes all 15 names are on a Memorial, so not buried there?

 

Possibly because most died else where?

 

But at lest two Germans are shown killed (Bacher and Canaan) in Palestine, but not shown buried any where, so possibly in that cemetery but there graves maybe lost?

 

But as the the site said 11 Germans and 5 KUK, then what happened to there graves?

 

If not in the Cemetery then there lost or moved?

 

Cheers

S.B

Edited 28 September , 2020 by stevebecker

[Eran Tearosh]

Steve,

 

I'm having a deeper look into this. The 15 names on that plaque are in memory of Jerusalemites, from different churches (most likely that most of them will be the from the Jerusalem German Templer Colony), who fought and died in the Great War. They are not buried there. I'll try to return tomorrow with more detailed facts about this plot. Problem is I'll have to the checking by phone and computer, due to the lockdown here.

 

Eran 

 

 

[Eran Tearosh]

Steve, 

 

I had many phone chats yesterday. The protestant cemetery is a part of the grounds of the Jerusalem University College (formerly the American Institute of Holy Land Studies), which was founded as the Bishop Gobat School. Bishop Gobat dedicated a part of the unused land as the protestant cemetery, however, one has to coordinate a visit there. I asked the American gentleman who runs the college to do me a favor and he will take photos of the various plaques at the German Military Plot and of all the graves there. He promised to do so over the next couple of days. 

 

One must bare in mind that there are actual burials there, as well as the memorial plaque you asked about. I'm trying to put all the info of that time together and in order. Quite challenging... I had a long chat with Dr. Norbert Schwake from Nazareth. No one knows better then him about the German and Austro-Hungarians in this theatre of war. He is the one responsible for the restoration of the German War Cemetery in Nazareth. He corrected me, that the memorial plaque is dedicated to Jerusalemites of al faiths, including the Jewish name - Moses Salomon (I thought he was a convert). According to Norbert, he is a member of the quite famous Salomon family and was killed near Gaza. I contacted the family members who act as the 'Family Historians' to try to verify the story. 

 

There are also quite a few question marks regarding the burial of EEF P.O.W.s up to the fall of Jerusalem, the burial of British on Mt. Zion after Jerusalem was captured and the reburial at Mt. Scopus. Lots of contradicting numbers in different sources.  

 

I never dealt before with the German VDK or Austrian Black Cross (OSK), so its going to take me time to understand how they work and much longer to master them. 

 

So, as you see, I'm on it....

 

Eran

 

 

[Guest]

Eran,

 

Mate its very interesting, just a quick look at a number of cemeteries in Palestine and at Baghdad throw up many questions on these.

 

This Corvid and stuck at home and has me on the site more then I do.

 

The Austrian Black Cross looks interesting I've not heard of it, My sources of Austrian dead never pointed me there?

 

Photos of the panels sounds great, sites (Nazareth and Baghdad) only give a short glimce of what is there.

 

Cheers

[Guest]

Eran,

 

I notice this man is buried there, do you have any details on how he died?

 

Schmidt Edmund   German Consul General in Jerusalem 1901-16

 

Cheers

S.B
 

[michaeldr]

Steve,

Can you give the date in 1916 when this chap died?

[michaeldr]

Dr E Schmidt died of apoplexy after eating lunch, never regained consciousness and passed away at dawn 27 March 1916

He had been in the country for 25 years

The funeral at the Protestant church of the Redeemer was well attended. The procession included infantry and marines as well as the band of the 8th Army Corps

 

Details from the diary of Conde de Ballobar the Spanish Consul

[Guest]

Michael,

 

Thanks mate, I saw a newspaper articale about his grave (and others) being destroyed some time back. But no details on the man himself.

 

Cheers

 

S.B