Ypres1915 Posted 22 September , 2020 Share Posted 22 September , 2020 I was browsing the IWM images and found a picture of a Tank Corps officer. What struck me about the photo was the cap badge. It appears that the badge has the dreaded "Ring Spanners". I wish it was clearer, but to me it looks like rings on the ends? Opinions welcomed. Ypres1915 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 22 September , 2020 Share Posted 22 September , 2020 Sorry for my ignorance but what do you mean by "dreaded ring spanners" ? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ypres1915 Posted 22 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 22 September , 2020 Apparently the sign of a 100% fake badge is the "Ring Spanner" . Below is a picture of a "Real" badge and "Fake" badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 22 September , 2020 Share Posted 22 September , 2020 Thanks for your explanation, its not something I've happened on before. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 22 September , 2020 Share Posted 22 September , 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Ypres1915 said: Apparently the sign of a 100% fake badge is the "Ring Spanner" . Below is a picture of a "Real" badge and "Fake" badge. I don’t think that everything that badge collectors say about idiosyncrasies in badge manufacture is correct. There have always been manufacturer’s variations and contemporary photos are manifestly far better evidence of what was worn. Edited 22 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 22 September , 2020 Share Posted 22 September , 2020 50 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: I don’t think that everything that badge collectors say about idiosyncrasies in badge manufacture is correct. There have always been manufacturer’s variations and contemporary photos are manifestly far better evidence of what was worn. Frogsmile, as a former badge collector over many years and a member of the B&CMBF for the last six years, I couldn't agree with you more. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 22 September , 2020 Share Posted 22 September , 2020 44 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said: Frogsmile, as a former badge collector over many years and a member of the B&CMBF for the last six years, I couldn't agree with you more. Pete. I didn’t know you were a member Pete. I post there as Toby Purcell. Have our paths crossed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: I don’t think that everything that badge collectors say about idiosyncrasies in badge manufacture is correct. There have always been manufacturer’s variations and contemporary photos are manifestly far better evidence of what was worn. SoM springs to mind eh FROGSMILE. The 'ringspanners ' are quite clear, even the further away one you can make it out. Just goes to show.... Thank you for sharing Ypres1915, any chance we can see the whole photo please Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: I didn’t know you were a member Pete. I post there as Toby Purcell. Have our paths crossed? Frogsmile, I am familiar with your contributions to the B&CMBF but I don't think our paths have ever crossed on it. I have rattled a few cages on there in the past but that's only to be expected given the attitude of some of the members. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dragoon said: SoM springs to mind eh FROGSMILE. The 'ringspanners ' are quite clear, even the further away one you can make it out. Just goes to show.... Thank you for sharing Ypres1915, any chance we can see the whole photo please Chris “No names, no pack drill”, Chris. Photos and their predecessors are absolute gold mines in terms of veracity, and before them paintings taken from life. 2 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said: Frogsmile, I am familiar with your contributions to the B&CMBF but I don't think our paths have ever crossed on it. I have rattled a few cages on there in the past but that's only to be expected given the attitude of some of the members. Pete. I would have said hello, had I known.... P.S. to be clear I meant only paths, not swords.... Edited 23 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 13 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: “No names, no pack drill”, Chris. No names mentioned good Sir, I was referring to the School of Musketry (SoM) metal badge thread, which got a little heated. No names? We all get pack drill! That was normally the case ha ha. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 19 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: “No names, no pack drill”, Chris. Photos and their predecessors are absolute gold mines in terms of veracity, and before them paintings taken from life. I would have said hello, had I known.... P.S. to be clear I meant only paths, not swords.... I understand Frogsmile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dragoon said: No names mentioned good Sir, I was referring to the School of Musketry (SoM) metal badge thread, which got a little heated. No names? We all get pack drill! That was normally the case ha ha. Chris Yes, I realised you mentioned no names, I was just confirming that I also would not. I did get an answer regarding the SofM and those who demurred were wrong, but I haven’t got around to posting my findings. As so often with these things the answer related to rank and type of headdress. I find that collectors often lose sight of those two aspects beyond the very simple officer/OR divide. Edited 23 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes, I realised you mentioned no names, I was just confirming that I also would not. I did get an answer regarding the SofM and those who demurred were wrong, but I haven’t got around to posting my findings, Sorry FROGSMILE, I thought you thought I was referring to SoM as a name, understood, Roger out! I really look forward to your SoM findings, it does my head in these people who think they are so damn right, I wonder how many Tank Corps 'spanner' badges have been thrown out!! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 2 minutes ago, Dragoon said: Sorry FROGSMILE, I thought you thought I was referring to SoM as a name, understood, Roger out! I really look forward to your SoM findings, it does my head in these people who think they are so damn right, I wonder how many Tank Corps 'spanner' badges have been thrown out!! Chris I was trying to figure out who SoM was and couldn't, now I see why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 3 minutes ago, Dragoon said: Sorry FROGSMILE, I thought you thought I was referring to SoM as a name, understood, Roger out! I really look forward to your SoM findings, it does my head in these people who think they are so damn right, I wonder how many Tank Corps 'spanner' badges have been thrown out!! Chris Yes, it never ceases to amaze me how some collectors are so in thrall of a particular individual that they will throw out a perfectly good badge through some obscure flaw on their advisers say-so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes, it never ceases to amaze me how some collectors are so in thrall of a particular individual that they will throw out a perfectly good badge through some obscure flaw on their advisers say-so. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who feels that way. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 5 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said: I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who feels that way. Pete. Ditto, Pete, ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ypres1915 Posted 23 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 23 September , 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Dragoon said: The 'ringspanners ' are quite clear, even the further away one you can make it out. Just goes to show.... Thank you for sharing Ypres1915, any chance we can see the whole photo please Here is the entire photo. Lieutenant J H Walker © IWM HU 126962. The reverse of the photo states in was purchased Feb 1918. Also states it was part of the "Bonds of Sacrifice" portrait collection. Apparently a casualty. It's interesting how "collectors' myths" become fact over the years. How many good "ring spanner" badges have been tossed from collections! I also added a few more close-ups of the badge. All the best, Ypres Edited 23 September , 2020 by Ypres1915 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ypres1915 Posted 23 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 23 September , 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 Thank you Ypres. He appears to have MGC buttons, maybe he was a Heavy Branch original. Defiantly a ring spanner badge. I must admit, I did find it odd on the badge forum, that the ring spanner badge "fake", had more detail on the track tensioners than just a block line on the "original" badges, why would a faker put better detail on a badge?? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 23 September , 2020 Share Posted 23 September , 2020 Surely Ypres1915 has unearthed a photo of the first known example of the fake ring spanner badge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ypres1915 Posted 23 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 23 September , 2020 I also question the other sign of a fake, being " lugs" instead of "slider". Why would every Tank Corps badge have a slider? I have a nice bronze (Officer's) Tank Corps badge in my collection, that just "feels" right. It has "lugs" and the "ring spanner". I just couldn't toss it. It looks too good?? Thanks, Ypres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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