tons per

[tonsper111]

hi im looking for info on a 1917 tons per 303 sht mk 3 i cant seem to fins anything just lots of lee enfeild info on 303,s..please help me out ,,thank you..

[Andy A]

SAYS 49000 PSI  when i googled it.  Whats your question? Maybe you didnt ask the right question.

 

 

Andy

 

 

[4thGordons]

I too am struggling to be sure what you are asking however, the marking on the UK civilian proof mark on Sht LEs for the .303 round is 18.5 tons per square inch if that helps.

Chris

[Chasemuseum]

In the old imperial units pressure was most frequently quoted in psi - pound force per square inch or in column inches of mercury. 1 psi = 6.89 kilopascals (kPa). A pascal is an equivalent force over area type unit being 1  kg m s² over 1 m²   . Its actually a very small unit. Air pressure at sea level is 100,000 Pa or 100 kPa  or 14.5 psi.

 

Firearm maximum proof chamber pressures are extreme high pressures. The imperial ton is 2240 pounds so a proof pressure of 18.5 ton per square inch is 41,1440 psi or 285 Mega Pa.

 

To equate this to everyday use, the pressures in a hydraulic power pack are usually in the range of 2,000 to 4,000 psi.  One hydraulic unit I have worked with ran between 10,000 and 14,000 psi but was a unique application. Both the hydraulic pump and hydraulic motor were built into a single big block of special alloy steel, so that there were no hoses used.

 

Car tyres usually run from 25 to 35psi and truck tyres about 100 psi.

 

If you are talking about the weight of rifles a SMLE No1 Mk III rifles weighs 9.8 pounds (lbs) so an imperial ton of rifles is  228 rifles but in practice the wooden crates they were shipped in were very heavy, so a ton of rifles in the crates would be a lot smaller number, I do not know exactly but would guess about 160.

 

Ross

[tonsper111]

the make of the rifle is tonsper   but on the rifle its spelled like ,,tons per im trying to find info on the rifle ..its a 303 from 1917

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

As with other readers of this thread I'm also unclear of the meaning of your original question.

I have punctuated it in a way that makes sense to me, and I read it as:

 

"Hi, I'm looking for info on a 1917 tons per Mk.3 SMLE 303.

I can't seem to find anything, just lots of Lee Enfield info on 303's.

Please help me out.

 

Thank you            "

 

Your second post :

 

"The make of the rifle is tonsper, but on the rifle its spelled like " ,,tons per".

I'm trying to find info on the rifle.

It's a 303 from 1917.  "

 

So, are you saying that there's a mark similar to this on your rifle?

 

 

If it is something like it, then that's the mark that states that the rifle barrel is designed or tested to withstand a pressure of  so many tons per square inch.

I don't know much about rifles, but I've not heard of a make called 'Tons Per', but I am aware of internet discussions where posters have asked about such a brand, and found that the 'Brand Make Stamp' was in fact the proof stamp as per the above image.

http://65.19.191.220/forum/viewtopic.php?p=184238&sid=43780ad439ec4dafdd52d5e43f4264e5

[4thGordons]

Here:  In the first picture in a recent thread is the 18.5 Tons per mark on a ShtLE

 

[Chasemuseum]

It is a British proof house mark - not a government arsenal acceptance mark. It dates to preparation for lawful sale on the civilian market as a target rifle.

 

The barrel has been test fired with a "proof " cartridge. The barrel has been measured with a micrometer before firing and then measured after firing to confirm that there has been no plastic deformation. Similarly the bolt has been checked with head space gauges before and after the proof cartridge firing to ensure that there has been no plastic deformation of the receiver. If any plastic deformation occurred the rifle would have been condemned. Proof firing is carried out in a safety room with a remote controlled mechanical device as there is always the risk of a catastrophic failure (rupture of the barrel or failure of the receiver with the bolt bl;owing out.)

In imperial units " was the abbreviation for inches, ' for feet and the little square means just that "square" so it reads as written - "tons per square inch" with the number being the calculated pressure generated by the proof cartridge. So for the rifle in the post by 4thGordons it was proofed at "18.5 tons per square inch"

 

Other stamps will identify the proof house that carried out the test.

 

Again - these stamps all relate to civilian use after military service.

Cheers

Ross

[4thGordons]

1 hour ago, Chasemuseum said:

It is a British proof house mark - not a government arsenal acceptance mark. It dates to preparation for lawful sale on the civilian market as a target rifle.

 

 

Which is precisely what I said in the linked  thread after describing the official makings I wrote:

"On the barrel these have been overstamped with UK civilian proof marks showing that this rifle has passed through the UK gun trade at some point (the proof marks give the dimensions and pressure of the .303 cartridge - .303 2.222inches 18.5 tons per square inch )"

Edited 23 September , 2020 by 4thGordons

[tonsper111]

ok im sorry i must be looking at the wrong info on the rifle,,its just that i cant find a maker mark on the rifle other then england marked on it,,thanks guys

[Interested]

You might find someone on this forum will be able to provide more information if you post a picture of the weapon.  Experts might have identical items in their collections which would then allow you to get guidance on the likely manufacturer.

Hope this helps.

[4thGordons]

31 minutes ago, tonsper111 said:

ok im sorry i must be looking at the wrong info on the rifle,,its just that i cant find a maker mark on the rifle other then england marked on it,,thanks guys

If it is a SMLE MkIII or MkIII* (Rifle No1) then the maker will be marked on the wrist of the rifle (Unless it has been scrubbed in a rebuild in India)

Here is a quick selection

RSAF Enfield

 

 

London Small Arms LSA                                          Birmingham Small Arms BSA                                 SSA/NRF

     

Lithgow (Australia)                                                    Lithgow WWII                                      BSA (WWII Dispersal)

 

 

WWII Ishapore (INDIA)                                          Very Late Ishapore                                                BSA Made (for SIAM)

 

Ishapore scrubbed rifle  -------------------------------------------Conversion marks on obverse

 

 

If it is a WWII vintage No4  then most of them have the maker engraved on the left side of the receiver but it is often very hard to see and some don't

Here is a very clearly marked Longbranch (Rifle) Candian but this shows the location most rifles have light electro-pencil marking here

 

 

As "Interested"said - a picture is worth a lot!  I bet we can figure it out if you post a pic!

Chris

 

[tonsper111]

how do i post pics on here i have taken a few of the marks on the rifle

 

[4thGordons]

To post pics

Hit reply as normal then at the bottom you can see "Drag files here to attach or choose files" drag your pics to the paperclip or click on choose files and then navigate to your image files

and attach.

If you just leave them attached they will show up at the bottom of your post - if you want to include them in the post mouse over the image when it shows up and click the + sign in the top corner and it will place the picture in the message where the cursor was last placed.

Chris

[Chasemuseum]

Also, I think that there is a restriction for new members on posting photos until you have made a certain number of posts on the forum. If you have the post files link showing you should be able to post.

Cheers

Ross